Interesting Discussion Lean Manufacturing Concepts - Is 'Lean' hype?

[Bev D]

There is an English movie from the 50's (long before my time) called "Right the First Time" that dramtically details lean concepts but back then then it wasn't a buzz word it was common sense.

ah - but common sense is anything but common. just talk to anyone who was trained in batch processing about one piece flow. they will think you have no 'common sense'

and yes there will always be cute names that are used to 'hype' any technique. it isn't called 'marketing for nothing!

but to the original post: Lean methods, no matter what you call them, are not hype. some consultants and authors can hype lean. but lean is real; it still needs to be taught, learned and practiced as no one is actually born knowing what a Kanban is, or why single piece flow is better than batching or...

 

[potdar]

Just my

Lean definitely isn't hype. It works. Many people have benefitted by it, and many will.

The problem is with the people who have made it an industry. (Consultants - good and bad - like us). They have hyped it for their own sakes. They will continue to do it till a very good way of tackling problems dies its natural (accelarated?) death like so many others before it.

By then, something else would manage to take centre stage. Till it also gets hyped to death.

Any guesses on what will be the next candidate? TOC?

 

[Helmut Jilling]

Just my

Lean definitely isn't hype. It works. Many people have benefitted by it, and many will.

The problem is with the people who have made it an industry. (Consultants - good and bad - like us). They have hyped it for their own sakes. They will continue to do it till a very good way of tackling problems dies its natural (accelarated?) death like so many others before it.

By then, something else would manage to take centre stage. Till it also gets hyped to death.

Any guesses on what will be the next candidate? TOC?

Hyped or not, why do you think Lean Mfg. would die a natural death? It works and is applied in hundreds of thousands of companies.

 

[Steve Prevette]

Hyped or not, why do you think Lean Mfg. would die a natural death? It works and is applied in hundreds of thousands of companies.

My theory is that "Lean" as a specific entity unto itself will fade away, and become just a part of doing business, like it originally was.

I am still professionally dismayed by these cycles. "gobbledygook" becomes a new buzzword. Donald Trump swears by it. Consultants run in and offer $30,000 courses for gobbledygook. Never mind that degreed professionals already know how to do gobbledygook, unless you have the Richard Simmons certification in gobbbledygook, you aren't going to be hired. The Donald requires his apprentices to do a gobbledygook project, and it saves Trump 10 gagoolian dollars. Then, seven to ten years later the backlash starts.

 

[wmarhel]

My theory is that "Lean" as a specific entity unto itself will fade away, and become just a part of doing business, like it originally was.

For Toyota it is just the way they do business. It is the same with Danaher, HON, and others. The "hype" in my opinion is largely from consultants who market it because others don't truly understand what it is, or what it means.

Wayne

 

[Madfox]

I'm a supporter of Lean because I've actually seen companies make money doing it. (Can one say that about ISO?)

It''s not the program, it's the attitude. As mentioned in "The Toyota Way," the concept is to think of sales as fixed, and costs as a variable; that you can't control sales, but you can control costs. How many companies do you know that budget based upon next year's sales projections? I only wish government entities shared this attitude.

One company I interact with gave their union notice in Jan '06 that is was "change or perish" time. They implemented a lean program and by Sep '06 they were producing more with 60% of the employees.

The Madfox

 

[Wes Bucey]

I'm a supporter of Lean because I've actually seen companies make money doing it. (Can one say that about ISO?)

It''s not the program, it's the attitude. As mentioned in "The Toyota Way," the concept is to think of sales as fixed, and costs as a variable; that you can't control sales, but you can control costs. How many companies do you know that budget based upon next year's sales projections? I only wish government entities shared this attitude.

One company I interact with gave their union notice in Jan '06 that is was "change or perish" time. They implemented a lean program and by Sep '06 they were producing more with 60% of the employees.

The Madfox

Yep. This is the problem I have with most LEAN programs. (Remember, I am a charter member of the Lean Division of American Society for Quality.)

For too many companies, the opening salvo is: "We will reduce employee count!"

In fact, the ideal is to expand sales and production to gainfully employ all employees, not shrink the workforce.

Announcing a new quality program:
In a spirit of helpfulness and contribution to my fellow quality professionals, I am proud to announce a new quality program you will ALL want to learn and use in your own operations:
NEAT®

It's short, catchy, easy to remember, and trademarked so you can increase your [and my] personal revenues whenever anyone uses it.

There may be some persnickety types who will want to know what the acronym stands for, so I disclose it, but caution you to keep it as secret as Shainin (http://www.qsconsult.be/ESTShainin.htm) folk keep theirs, since mystery increases the amount you can charge the gullible.

NEAT = New Egregious Advertising Term

Like all other quality programs, there will be absolutely nothing new for you to learn, since it ,
NEAT®,
will be completely derivative of the same Body of Knowledge we've been using since Shewart and Deming and Juran and always available for free from the U.S.A. Department of Defense and N.I.S.T.

Enjoy!

 

[potdar]

Hyped or not, why do you think Lean Mfg. would die a natural death? It works and is applied in hundreds of thousands of companies.

I think I need not add much after Steve and then Wes have put it so NEAT® ly.

 

[Madfox]

The organization referred to never threatened layoffs, what they threatened was closure.

Their Lean program basically consisted of changing from an unorganized grouping of processes to the implementation of three conveyor lines. Involving forming, welding, and assembly, the cycle time was not any faster than expected output/shift from before.
But, what become manifest with this new procedure was to highlight those operators that were of less competency (addressed by training). More importantly, it highlighted the slackers and bad attitude-types. It was their peers who requested from management that these slackers be removed from "our" line. Ala Collins in "Good to Great," "people are not your best asset, good people are your best asset."

The organization's product changes daily, so every afternoon the re-design the line(s) (people, machines, material, and cycle-time) for the next day's production.

The Madfox

 

[psyched1]

I'm a supporter of Lean because I've actually seen companies make money doing it. (Can one say that about ISO?)

It''s not the program, it's the attitude. As mentioned in "The Toyota Way," the concept is to think of sales as fixed, and costs as a variable; that you can't control sales, but you can control costs. How many companies do you know that budget based upon next year's sales projections? I only wish government entities shared this attitude.

One company I interact with gave their union notice in Jan '06 that is was "change or perish" time. They implemented a lean program and by Sep '06 they were producing more with 60% of the employees.

The Madfox

A couple of Quick points on Lean.

1) By switching to just in time inventory you do temporarily increase cash flow by reducing inventory however if you are a small company with ineffcient equipment that increase in cash flow goes into improving capital equipment and improving maintenance costs.

2) Should you have unscheduled production down time for equipment failure or even the weather (St Louis loses power everytime it freezes) you have no recovery for customer scheduling.

3) One of the tenants of lean is that people should not lose their jobs do to increased effciency but this is not the case in corporate America. How many people were let go when you realized a 60% improvement. I know I was a vicitm of lean done wrong along with ten others.

4) Reduction of non-value added items such as inspection. While I agree it would be nice if all operators were skilled technicians that had pride in their work but in most shops that's Fantasy Land. In actuality people make mistakes and management hires temps. Without some form of double check system the time saved without inspection is made up on problem solving after the customer recieves defective product.

5) Here is one of my favorites in a lean system when a defect is found you are to stop production and resolve the problem. Since you are in a pull system you can only pull to the defective process creating a gap in deliveries. If this is a major problem such as a design flaw then your screwed. Without a quality system (ISO, QS, TQM or {insert abbreviation here}) forcing design control you are going to spend a lot of time explaining poor on-time delivery.

6) Like Quality Initiatives, Lean does not inrease your sales it only reduces your waste so you are saving money not making it.

Now I do like many of the key concepts of lean such as 5S, Quick change overs, Kiazen, Cellular Manufacturing, Kanaban boards and visual controls. Most of these concepts have been around for 50 years and giving them some fashionable name such as "Lean" does not make them perfect. In 5-10 years we will be investing our implementation and presentation skills on the next fad.