Letting go of ISO 9001:2008 certification...What other framework to use?

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esqchem

#1
Hi. Here I am once again. Being here serves me a lot of information. So I hope you can provide me better information on this one.

I was serving a service company for only 5 months and I've seen how their system works under the ISO9001:2008 framework. They do things all for the sake of ISO. The core is, they make it a burden for themselves. Eventhough I wanted abrupt changes, it would take a while to adjust their culture and system overhaul since I am only there for short time.

A few of management decided to let go of the certification while two or three department wanted to continue. But for me, all dept should be part of it since all processes are connected.

The thing is, is their any other framework I could use? I honestly told them that no matter what framework it would be, it will never be effective if some of the directors/unit heads will not cooperate and not make quality their way of life. Anyway, I got to make it work for them eventhough I felt sad that I wouldn't have the opportunity to make them see that ISO indeed work and only in that company that they misused it that it became a burden rather than an advantage.
 
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somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Not being where you are., we cannot sense the gravity of the situation. However reading from what you say, is the ISO9001 certificate your business requirement ?
If it is not, feel free to get away.

I am not aware of the CB with whom you are associated for the ISO9001 certification, but there are several CB's dishing out the ISO9001 certification, and still you will continue to feel the way you have expressed here. Be sure the CB with whom you associate have the required credentials.
You will come around to the ISO9001 QMS as the simple and logical framework if you go around looking for any other framework.
You need to have the top management commitment to implement an effective QMS. This commitment must be translated into required authority / responsibility among the organization personnel in practice. Top management commitment is not top management fiddling into the QMS operations any which way.
All the inputs and requirements of the top management can well be considered and an effective QMS can still be put in place and maintained. Do assess all possible opportunities to make necessary and suitable changes to the QMS, that you can see operating like a well lubricated machine.
Go to a good CB if you indeed want an ISO9001 certificate for meeting your business requirement.
 
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esqchem

#3
The ISO is not a requirement however before I came in, some of the unit head felt it was an advantage and it has been there for the last 12 years. Only now that after the surveillance audit (with major by the way) that the department who's been not that supportive and active at all raised the issue of its effectiveness associated also with the CB they are using. I myself felt when I came in that the CB in very lean. But more on that, it is their issue of adhering to the system.

They wanted me to check an alternative framework. The thing is, I am feeling we are still to use the ISO framework only in different dressing. And I feel, if some of them still acts the way they do, no framework will be useful.

I came in late, i just finished analyzing their data to show them ISO benefits. But it is their decision. Right now, I have to find a way to let them have a strong quality management system. The question is how further I can go..It's funny I should be the one surrendering since they have ISo for the last 12 years but not really working per se. Instead, it's the other way around, they, surrendering to what ISO can do to them. :)
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
I feel your frustration, esqchem.

For years, I have preached that the most important skill of a quality profession is persuasion.

Regardless of whether an organization chooses to register to, or merely be compliant to, an international quality standard like the ISO model, its most important function is to survive, and, hopefully, thrive.

I believe that there are some quality "basics" which contribute to both surviving and thriving:

  1. record keeping (Having a database of the activities and results allows an organization to review and compare to learn what works and what doesn't. It allows the organization to demonstrate its consistency to customers, employees, everyone to give them confidence the organization is stable.)
  2. continual improvement (It is truly said the only constant in life is change. An organization strives to make its changes positive versus negative. Record keeping, of course, provides the benchmark to measure improvement.)
  3. harmony (when all the parts of an organization are acting in concert for the common benefit, there is a greater chance of surviving and thriving. Deming's theory of a System of Profound Knowledge [SoPK] when deployed enthusiastically, can contribute greatly to the harmony.)

A quality professional who can persuade both bosses and workers to follow the basics for the benefit of the organization AND themselves rather than to satisfy some arbitrary Standard is pure gold to that organization.
 
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esqchem

#5
I have only been in quality for 6 yrs of my work exp. But I have learnt that implementing QMS is a tough job since dealing with different attitude matters.

It's just disappointing that the company just recently underwent recertification and ISO certificate is on the way. It's already a plus factor and I just have to let them see to appreciate and work from beneath to let quality and the standard work for the organization. It happened that they "advertised" ISO so much that instead of letting people know why things had to be done the way it should be, it's always "because ISO requires it". Guess I just need to find more effective ways to let some heads support it.
 
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