List of Level 3 PPAP requirements for automotive suppliers

optomist1

A Sea of Statistics
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#11
a bit more on this widely underappreciated, but very important idea of continuous open communications with the OEMs.....some OEMs have a document/application called a "Forever Requirement", (other OEMs have similar tool/document)....sounds pretty ominous, but in its simipliest form it "requires" that "ANY" change to a process/part, no matter how insigificant it may seem...MUST be communicated with the OEM SQ, Release Engineer, etc., for discussion and where appropriate action(s). The Forever part = it never expires....pre-launch, post launch +90 days...etc. Briefly a US suuplier to one of the Japanese OEMs decided to make a change to a "rivet" on their own...of course the uncommunicated rivet change turned out to be a the root cause to a recall....
 

eule del ayre

Involved In Discussions
#12
Less known, but still important:
If it's sloppy looking, your customer is more apt to dig into it. Nobody can send me a PPAP submission that I cannot find a problem with, if I want to. If what you send is disorganized and sloppy, I'm going to spend more time poking around in it, which will be more painful for you. Make sure things like your file names are organized and make sense. You should really number them by element number as well. Make sure that if you are printing to a pdf, you don't have stray page breaks, etc. Think of it like a job interview. It really kind of is - it's like a resume saying "I'm ready to make your part." You want a good first impression. That will give me confidence, and I am less likely to dig. And believe me, there is nothing worse than an SQ who starts digging that doesn't know what they are digging for. Depending on the complexity of the part, an SQ spends about 4 hours examining a PPAP. But if it's sloppy, it gets a lot more attention.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the insight sir very well said, I've been to some various process audit, but they usually notice what's not on the process. For example, in our manual painting booth, which paint, hardener and thinner are segregated with names on it and its expiration date for the FIFO. My point is he actually point out that that the paint used for their item must be segregated with others, they should be not included in the group, for some instances maybe our operator will use other paint/thinner/hardener, is that even rational? i am sorry for being off the topic but what i'm saying is based on the PPAP inclusion the control plan.
 

optomist1

A Sea of Statistics
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#13
you are welcome ain't this site great?? a bit more insight...albeit off the cuff and unscientific...."Usually, (Adv SQ OEM), I could assess the direction the audit, eligibility assessment or PDR was headed within the first 10-15 minutes in the facility; having met my counterparts, etc., if the place is clean, well organized (5S), where appropriate ESD training is provided/PPE equipment etc., and the personnel are in fact ready to go, the end result is a beautiful thing...to be certain in most cases the SQ or auditor may find items, or conditions that require attention, but they tend to be minor in nature.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
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#14
My point is he actually point out that that the paint used for their item must be segregated with others, they should be not included in the group, for some instances maybe our operator will use other paint/thinner/hardener, is that even rational?
Totally rational.

If I'm the SQE, my main job is to make sure that the vendors under my watch don't make mistakes on my parts.
I'm not responsible for what it costs you.
I'm not responsible for whether or not you like it.
I'm not responsible for your business reality...I'm responsible for mine.
I am responsible to follow up every time you make a mistake.
If I could, I'd ask you to make nothing except for my part...ever...

Segregating my paint from other people's paint is a nice, easy way to add assurance you wont make a mistake...
Understand the ballpark you're playing in, and many of the "unreasonable" demands made become logical.
...doesn't mean you'll follow them all, but it puts some sanity back into the process...and the "unreasonable" demands...
 

eule del ayre

Involved In Discussions
#15
you are welcome ain't this site great?? a bit more insight...albeit off the cuff and unscientific...."Usually, (Adv SQ OEM), I could assess the direction the audit, eligibility assessment or PDR was headed within the first 10-15 minutes in the facility; having met my counterparts, etc., if the place is clean, well organized (5S), where appropriate ESD training is provided/PPE equipment etc., and the personnel are in fact ready to go, the end result is a beautiful thing...to be certain in most cases the SQ or auditor may find items, or conditions that require attention, but they tend to be minor in nature.
Indeed you're right sir, my operators did all of that in order for them to make it as a habit, and me as an engineer prioritizing the good practice that leads to customer satisfaction
 

optomist1

A Sea of Statistics
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#16
good to hear many times the dull and boring stuff like propoer 5S/PPE/ESD gets short shrift, or lost in the build up to launch, or when planning or moving a production line. While on the subject, another important basic matter often overlooked...adequate lighting for the manufacturing and inspection areas. At some locations, the finished product(s) is reviewed with "very good >> excellent lighting"...yet the product is produced with sub-par lighting.

If operators are to have a chance to meet the various product metrics, matters such as lighting are a MUST!! Just my two cents!!
 

eule del ayre

Involved In Discussions
#17
Totally rational.

If I'm the SQE, my main job is to make sure that the vendors under my watch don't make mistakes on my parts.
I'm not responsible for what it costs you.
I'm not responsible for whether or not you like it.
I'm not responsible for your business reality...I'm responsible for mine.
I am responsible to follow up every time you make a mistake.
If I could, I'd ask you to make nothing except for my part...ever...

Segregating my paint from other people's paint is a nice, easy way to add assurance you wont make a mistake...
Understand the ballpark you're playing in, and many of the "unreasonable" demands made become logical.
...doesn't mean you'll follow them all, but it puts some sanity back into the process...and the "unreasonable" demands...
Thank you sir, well i'm just saying sir, that the paint, thinner and hardener are segregated, they are arranged by customer, but in the same rack, they are divided by partition for every customer's paint, thinner and hardener. What i'm saying about segregating the customer's mixing paint was to isolate what's theirs. Hmm, but for complying the customer's suggestion we'll do it, for we are customer driven.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
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#18
Fair enough...and it is you company's decision to make.

Please understand that while it may be rational for the customer to ask...and the customer may state it as a "requirement"...that doesn't make it a "shall"...until and unless you accept it as such. Prior to that, it is a request.
 

eule del ayre

Involved In Discussions
#19
Fair enough...and it is you company's decision to make.

Please understand that while it may be rational for the customer to ask...and the customer may state it as a "requirement"...that doesn't make it a "shall"...until and unless you accept it as such. Prior to that, it is a request.
yup i totally agree with you sir, i'm just thinking about it that isn't it a bit exaggerated? i mean yes it is customer's demand, but it is properly segregated. hmm oh well i guess i have to change the layout again. Thanks again sir.
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
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#20
That part...right there...that's the part I keep reacting to. ...and I understand it may just be semantics and the wording you naturally use...

You may choose to, you may choose not to, you may negotiate the request, or may simply refuse the request (as a company, not as a person).
One of the things that is a non-starter is "I have to...".
Seems like you understand this already, so I'll leave off.
Best of luck with your work.
 

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