Local Control Document procedure....define it or not?

Crusader

Trusted Information Resource
#1
RE: ISO 9001:2008.....

Question: for "local controlled" documents, is a controlled procedure required for those less formal docs? I've never been told that a procedure was required for defining how locally controlled docs are controlled...until today.
 
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Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Hmmmm - what's 'locally controlled'? I'm thinking if you have documents needed for process control, they'd better be controlled, locally, globally or 3 doors down.

And don't be fooled by 'less formal' or similar moniker applied to those documents. If they're needed, get 'em under control...:cool:
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#3
In our site document control procedure we allow groups to have their own control processes for SOPs, etc, but we say they must define the methods. This is the part people often fall down on. Of course their processes are auditable.
 

Crusader

Trusted Information Resource
#4
There is a doc in question. Only 1. It is a doc that is being used as reference / guideline for inspection but the info on the doc is merely a reference and we don't really need to have it posted - we want to post it to provide some guidelines but not posting it to make it official.

It is locally controlled by the Supervisor of the area. He has 1 master on his computer and a copy printed/posted. That doc does not reside anywhere else.

So, do we need to have a procedure for this 1 doc? C'mon, Really?


The registrar is also stating that any inspection doc posted in the shop must be "controlled", but this is a reference inspection - it is not required. We have it there for reference only as an "aid" to the process.
 
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Crusader

Trusted Information Resource
#5
Hmmmm - what's 'locally controlled'? I'm thinking if you have documents needed for process control, they'd better be controlled, locally, globally or 3 doors down.

And don't be fooled by 'less formal' or similar moniker applied to those documents. If they're needed, get 'em under control...:cool:
Yes, they are all controlled. But, locally controlled docs do not have a specific procedure written that defines how each person locally controls their docs. We've always been told by the registrar that a documented procedure was not necessary for local controlled docs....until today. Registrar/auditor is not consistent.
 
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#7
There is a doc in question. Only 1. It is a doc that is being used as reference / guideline for inspection but the info on the doc is merely a reference and we don't really need to have it posted - we want to post it to provide some guidelines but not posting it to make it official.

It is locally controlled by the Supervisor of the area. He has 1 master on his computer and a copy printed/posted. That doc does not reside anywhere else.

So, do we need to have a procedure for this 1 doc? C'mon, Really?


The registrar is also stating that any inspection doc posted in the shop must be "controlled", but this is a reference inspection - it is not required. We have it there for reference only as an "aid" to the process.
Your auditor is inconsistent, not the CB, really...however, I'd suggest you make an executive decision. Either it's needed for this work or it isn't! If you/they need it, bury it in some other document which is controlled! No individual document need special treatment...
 

Crusader

Trusted Information Resource
#8
I guess what is really irritating me is that the auditor is saying it must be controlled simply because it is a doc that lists dimensions to check in-process - does not matter if we say the doc is reference only. He said it cannot be ref only. How can he impose that upon us??? Reference is simply that - reference only - same as a gage that is not calibrated.

The reference inspection being performed is not buying off the operation/product at that point either. The next process operation buys off the part in its final stage.
 
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qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#9
I guess what is really irritating me is that the auditor is saying it must be controlled simply because it is a doc that lists dimensions to check in-process - does not matter if we say the doc is reference only. He said it cannot be ref only. How can he impose that upon us??? Reference is simply that - reference only - same as a gage that is not calibrated.

The reference inspection being performed is not buying off the operation/product at that point either. The next process operation buys off the part in its final stage.
I do not know how you are organized in terms of QMS processes, if there is a Corporate and then local sites.
If there is a Corporate document control procedure, you also could think to make a local procedure as addendum of the higher one such as in the pyramid of the documentation.
This procedure clearly has not to be in contrast with the corporate one and could embrace this kind of documents within its scope.
However it is not mandatory but it could be a suggestion.
hope this helps:bigwave:
 
T

The Specialist

#10
RE: ISO 9001:2008.....

Question: for "local controlled" documents, is a controlled procedure required for those less formal docs? I've never been told that a procedure was required for defining how locally controlled docs are controlled...until today.
Just to clarify (I'm feeling 'thick' today!); are you refering to documents contained on personnel's PCs when you say 'local'?

Or, do you meen departmental, or 'site' or...?
 
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