Looking for an Implementation Consultant... Is a consultant firm a good idea?

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#11
Re: Looking for a registrar...

Thread renamed and moved to the consultants forum.
I think the renaming of the thread missed the mark. In my opinion, the thrust of the OP concern had to do with using a questionable outfit to document their system and issue the certificate. That shady practice, which violates the basic precepts of integrity, is alive and well, preying on people's ignorance.
Dave, I can't let this one go by, because there's so much I disagree with and some that, as a consultant, I find somewhat insulting.
I might be wrong Jane, but you might have misread his post. I believe he was criticizing the practice and engagement mode that the OP was referring to. I don't believe he was generalizing the consulting profession.
 
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Randy

Super Moderator
#12
I received a call from a firm that wants to help us get registered. Wants to come in, interview us, write the manual, procedures, etc, audit us internally, then externally.
Sounds like a snake-oil sales pitch to me.

The internal and external audit makes me a bit curious as well 'cause that dog don't normally hunt:nope:
 
A

amartin

#13
:mg:Here is the issue with hiring outside help. Every company is different and operates there own way. Consultants usually focus on just getting you certified, which may or may not happen. In any case you are left with defending and ensuring your company complies with the process and procedures written in your manual. Most consultants lack the broad background to do an effective job. For example, if your consultant develops a shelf life process with the state-of-the-art software program to manage it all could you afford it? On the flip side if the process consists of forms, control points and bureaucracy could you manage the system to ensure compliance? It usually helps to do it yourself unless you get a experienced consultant with the proper back ground, which is $$$$.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#14
Every company is different and operates there own way. Consultants usually focus on just getting you certified, which may or may not happen. SNIP. Most consultants lack the broad background to do an effective job. SNIP It usually helps to do it yourself unless you get a experienced consultant with the proper back ground, which is $$$$.
I have no idea of how many consultants you have been exposed to, in the past, but these broad-brush, sweeping generalizations are simply WRONG AND MISGUIDED.

This very community here showcases, on a daily basis, excellent AND FREE advice. Their posts are testimony of their intellectual horsepower and pragmatic experience.
People like Marc, Howste, Stijloor, Jane and a few others provide incredible insight to management systems. I think your generalization is way off the mark.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#15
People like Marc, Howste, Stijloor, Jane and a few others provide incredible insight to management systems. I think your generalization is way off the mark
Agreed:agree1:

In the case of our OP and the promise of internal and external audits made to them we may possibly be seeing the other side of the coin...not the whole coin.

Don't judge one or two by the group....
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#16
Sounds like a snake-oil sales pitch to me.

The internal and external audit makes me a bit curious as well 'cause that dog don't normally hunt:nope:
Yeah - see - we haven't seen the "consultant's" written proposal - the OP, being inexperienced, may have mischaracterized what the "consultant" actually proposes to do.


:mg:Here is the issue with hiring outside help. Every company is different and operates there own way. Consultants usually focus on just getting you certified, which may or may not happen. In any case you are left with defending and ensuring your company complies with the process and procedures written in your manual. Most consultants lack the broad background to do an effective job. For example, if your consultant develops a shelf life process with the state-of-the-art software program to manage it all could you afford it? On the flip side if the process consists of forms, control points and bureaucracy could you manage the system to ensure compliance? It usually helps to do it yourself unless you get a experienced consultant with the proper back ground, which is $$$$.
I have no idea of how many consultants you have been exposed to, in the past, but these broad-brush, sweeping generalizations are simply WRONG AND MISGUIDED.

This very community here showcases, on a daily basis, excellent AND FREE advice. Their posts are testimony of their intellectual horsepower and pragmatic experience.
People like Marc, Howste, Stijloor, Jane and a few others provide incredible insight to management systems. I think your generalization is way off the mark.
I tend to think like Sidney here, Amartin, you are trying to make a generalization from a limited experience point of view.

Agreed:agree1:

In the case of our OP and the promise of internal and external audits made to them we may possibly be seeing the other side of the coin...not the whole coin.

Don't judge one or two by the group....
My point is similar to this - we don't have a true picture of either the OP's organization (despite his own characterization as "a MESS"), or of the consultant making a proposal, combined with folks using the word "consultant" to mean something far different from what I and other consultants like me mean when we use the word to describe our activity. As far as the coin is concerned, I can make a quarter appear to change into a nickel, then disappear. That doesn't mean I lose money that easily!
 
J

JaneB

#17
I received a call from a firm that wants to help us get registered. Wants to come in, interview us, write the manual, procedures, etc, audit us internally, then externally. I read in the threads the other day that there are some shady firms out there. Is this a good way to go ?
Definitely not this one. It's clear from what you say that they either don't know the meaning of Conflict of Interest or pay it no attention. :nope:

Also: run a mile from any canned system - you'll spot them by the fact they'll promise 'dead easy', 'no extra work', 'turnkey solution'. They aren't.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
J

JaneB

#19
Consultants usually focus on just getting you certified, which may or may not happen....
Oh, balderdash. But if the client's brief is certification, sure, that's a key outcome and focus. But not to the exclusion of helping them achieve a useful, practical and sound quality system that suits them.
As to the may/may not happen... I guarantee satisfaction with my services. If the client isn't happy, I don't charge them. How many employees do I know who do that? Hmmm, none. :nope:

I could go on, but as Sidney already said, so completely wrong and misguided. How many consultants is this opinion (because that's what it is) actually based on?
 
#20
Jane, I too, am a consultant. I have worked with countless organizations. And perhaps it is a just a local issue (I've only worked in the Detroit, Michigan area), but I have come up with many instances where a company hires someone to write their QMS with disastrous results. They create organizational names, departments, forms and practices that are mostly useless, but since they are part of the QMS, the company has to modify their operations to match the documentation. They end up working for the QMS, not the other way around. They have a monster they can’t feed.

With that said, I do, on occasion write the company’s documentation. I prefer them to, but sometimes they just don’t have the resources. I often provide them with templates to modify, so as to make it theirs. I try my best to have the process owners write their own documentation. By doing so, the process has complete ownership of their own stuff. And with many here (I think), my focus is on having a QMS (or even EMS) that works for the company. Do a good job there, and registration will take care of itself.

I apologize to anyone who may feel insulted by my previous post. I was not trying to paint all consultants with a broad brush, I was specifically talking about those companies that are in this for their own interests, not the interests of the client. The ones who attended the the Ferengi school of consulting. I seriously doubt there are any of those types in the Cove, because there is no profit in posting.
 
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