Lost in spaghetti-shaped processes

[joshua_sx1]

This is really quite a good advice!!

Interesting - where's the urgency coming from? Them? What's driving it?

I would:
* Stand back and take a deep breath
* Think of the various occasions in the past when you have successfully analysed processes
* Remind yourself that you are in a completely different field (can you indicate briefly how different?)
* Take time to consider whether as suggested, the confusion and overwhelm are symptoms of the problem - and that it ain't you!

…and please, don’t eat the "spaghetti-shaped" processes...

 

[Steve Prevette]

It does sound like you need to build a flowchart of what is happening in the process. I'd identify some key players who actually do the process of interest, and at the very least, interview them and ask them to describe what they do. Write down the steps on individual yellow sticky pad papers.

Then take your notes and preferably a few of the experts and lay out the sticky pad papers on a white board, and start connecting the different steps. Keeping track of who does the step will also help. You can move things around if things get too tangled. Then take a digital photo of the board and you have a flow chart! Yes, someone could then clean it up in a flowchart software or even just Excel.

 

[gfreely]

Thanks all for the advice!

I think I will sift through the processes starting with the "crayon" version (BIG picture)...

Overwhelmed is an understatement...I think my new boss is a good salesman (but honest)-he told me this position would be "a challenge"...

And to answer one of the earlier questions about fields? I have built, organised and maintained ISO-compliant quality systems for several companies...most of them pertained to the metrology/calibration program. I am now in a group that designs and manufactures for the energy sector. Talk about a phase-shift...

I can see that my by taking on this "challenge", I have blown my immediate chances of achieving my personal goals of cutting back on caffeine and quitting smoking :mybad:

 

[gfreely]

Ok all,

Here is my "Crayon" version...I will be meeting with the person in charge of a lot of this to break it down some more tomorrow. Please let me know if this looks like a good starting place.

Thanks again for the assist!

The "QA Miracle Worker"

 

[Stijloor]

Ok all,

Here is my "Crayon" version...I will be meeting with the person in charge of a lot of this to break it down some more tomorrow. Please let me know if this looks like a good starting place.

Thanks again for the assist!

The "QA Miracle Worker"

What you call "process" (Column B) appear headers/titles from some Standard to me. Was that your intent?

Stijloor.

 

[gfreely]

The 2nd column is more like a classification or grouping of processes (the un-bolded list below them). For example, item 9 Inspection is a grouping of all the examination and inspection processes listed below it.

Am I making sense? I know it's hard to see into someone's mind and understand their line of thinking....but in the end, that seems to me to be one of the goals of Quality is to make the business of doing business understandable by everyone involved. (Although it tends to confound and confuse many in the process.)

Thanks all,

"That Quality Guy"

 

[justncredible]

I almost never try to link to other stuff, and I admit I am not 100% sure of my understanding of process mapping.

The 'Best of the Best' Process Map Format

That thread has many examples and a good deal of information. Your sheet I do not understand what your trying to show, it to me looks almost like a document control type sheet. I see to much information and not a process that creates a single product. As I said I am not a expert by any means, and I am asking for clairification, from those that do have a better understanding.

Here is what I have submitted as a process flow on a PPAP. It was submitted with a router for the process and ties to the steps on the left. As well as tieing in to the control plan and the fema.

 

[JaneB]

Am I making sense? I know it's hard to see into someone's mind and understand their line of thinking....but in the end, that seems to me to be one of the goals of Quality is to make the business of doing business understandable by everyone involved. (Although it tends to confound and confuse many in the process.)

Sorry, but no, not to me you aren't. Your listing (and it does look like a list) doesn't resemble anything like a process or process map that I understand. While I realise & accept that it's got to work for you, this doesn't really give me much idea of the key processes that your organisation performs.

Au contraire, it looks rather like you've started from the clauses of the Standard (and those of the now utterly obsolete 1994 version at that) and then worked on grouping the various activities and SOPs around those clauses... which is not at all the intent of the process approach. I just don't understand why you would do that. I'd go nuts if I attempted to 'map processes' that way, & I suspect you'd confuse the hell out of people.

Why for example is it necessary to group a whole lot of activities together under a particular heading? Are they all part of the same process? Are they in different processes?

I always start by asking what happens (what is done/what people do), and attempting to flowchart that roughly, from start to finish, to get a sense of what happens in each process.

 

[gfreely]

Wow Jane...:truce:

That was tough! But I *do* appreciate your honesty and input. This is my first go in the QA-side of manufacturing. Not as clear-cut as I am accustomed to. I do see your point, however. I have been "loosely" basing what I have been doing sarcasm on "list" and "documents" instead of the actual processes themselves it seems.

I am going to have another go at it and see where I end up. Back to the whiteboard!

Thanks again! If you have any other advice I would love to hear it!

 

[Patricia Ravanello]

Typically, in my experience, Quality works the same for any industry/process...just minor tweaks here or there. But given the task to figure out these processes, I am completely overwhelmed. I started by looking at some Quality Plans (which are supposed to define for the customer what the processes are), but they are VERY general and vague. So I have been sifting through them looking for what has an input that it changes to an output. I knew I could take this job on and that it would be very labour intensive, however, I was a little shocked at the sense of urgency after I agreed! :mg:

I may have missed it, but I'm not sure what industry you're in, but Quality plans should be somewhat similar in many companies, and it seems that your company's plans don't provide you with much guidance. In automotive manufacturing, the APQP (Advanced Product Quality Planning) Manual provides a footprint for automotive suppliers to use...and they can expand on it as necessary. At least it starts everyone off on the same foot.

I've attached a sample model of Product Realization processes (an overview only), which aligns with the APQP Model. It has been supplemented with additional "Product Realization Phases", as appropriate for the customer.

At the bottom, you will find a reference to other customer-oriented processes, as well as the system's support-oriented processes (This is not and should not be confused with the key process "sequence and interface" model...since it doesn't actually demonstrate any interface or include any of the Management- or system-oriented processes).

Jane might have seemed a bit hard on you...but she was right on. Here's another gentle nudge in the right direction...

Patricia Ravanello