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Main Elements of an EMS - ISO14001 Clause 4.4.4 c) Auditor Interpretation

Paul Simpson

Paul Simpson

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#21
#21
Re: What does ISO14001 Clause 4.4.4 c) mean?

hjilling said:
I don't consider myself to be a dumb auditor,
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I don't think I pointed any fingers your way, Helmut. :notme:

hjilling said:
.... but the organizations system has to be clear enough for THEIR personnel to use it and show me where they address things. It is not my task to go hunting for it!
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Now here is my test for a dumb auditor .... if he/she goes into an organization and expects the company to be able to tell exactly where in their system a clause is addressed, that's dumb! :bonk:

If they go in and follow a trail through the organization's management system and the auditor can identify where their system (however documented) addresses the requirements (clauses) and can explain to the organization where a particular situation identifies a system weakness (non-compliance) and the articular requirement of the standard that is not being met. That to me is smart (and fair) auditing. :applause:

Now if we can only reverse the 80:20 on this particular skill. :lol:

hjilling said:
If the layout of the system is not clear enough for their folks to find things, then the system is NOT suitable and effective...might as well go and write it in Greek...(or even Swedish...:D)
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Again it depends what the auditor is asking them to find. If they are being asked to find something of what they do and they can't .... well there isn't too much complaint. If the auditor is expecting to find an element of the clause requirements then I have a lot more sympathy with the company - few people live out the clauses of any ISO standard.

Perhaps the world would be a better place if we could get auditors speaking the relevant language of the organization rather than ISOese. :lmao:
 
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