So the classification (major vs minor) is important, because it determines the follow up activities and costs. Was that the only Mgmt. review input not addressed or where there more that the auditor just didn't add? If that was the only input, I would challenge the major vs. minor characterization. And as others have indicated, the "fix" is easy -- make sure you have a template for your mgmt. reviews which includes all the required inputs. Then make sure you address each one. Good luck.
Major nonformance finding was given during a closing meeting of a ISO9001 certification audit
Randy
Super Moderator
Idiot NC finding based on your statement, use your appeal rights if your CB is accredited and request the audit be placed "non gratis" for you guys.
To raise a "major" without 1st discussing it is totally out of line, especially to raise it at the closing meeting, this is real world stuff that can have real world effect on people.
To raise a "major" without 1st discussing it is totally out of line, especially to raise it at the closing meeting, this is real world stuff that can have real world effect on people.
qualprod
Trusted Information Resource
The cause : were not addressed all ítems of 9.3.
The Point Is, why major?
This is not even a nonconformity. Make an appeal. It is not a requirement to cover all inputs in one meeting. Refer to ISO/TS 9002:2016 which says: "It is not required that all the inputs to management review be addressed at one time, but instead they may be addressed during sequenced management reviews".
The cause of the "presumed" major NC could be your auditor expect that everything must be covered at one time. Not because of the absence of a template.
I'm not a fan of fixing it easy for the auditor. You might create an approach that provides no value but to make your auditor happy. Give more importance in making your system "user-friendly" instead of "auditor-friendly".
That would depend if they have a one meeting management review. Otherwise they should have that documented sometime in the previous 12 months of meetings.
This is bad advice. If a nonconformance is found during an audit, it is written up. Presenting a nonconformance after the fact in the exit meeting is a no-no.
Here is the issue as I see it. When a nonconformance, major or minor is identified it is written up. The closing meeting is not the time for an auditor to bring it up. It should have been brought up during the audit. It is totally inappropriate to "spring a nonconformance" on a company being audited during the closing meeting, whether the nonconformance was major or minor.
If an auditor DID do that, I would stop the meeting and go to where the nonconformance was identified and do the writeup.
The closing meeting is to discuss findings identified. It may be "part of the audit" in the strictest sense, but to allow a nonconformance to be brought to light at that time brings the question: Why was it not identified when the person/area was actually being audited?
IF that type of "Oh, and we have this..." comes up in the closing meeting then there would be no need to identify ANY nonconformance until the closing meeting.
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Randy
Super Moderator
Really? Really? And this is backed by what expertise, because it goes against audit principles, guidance and plain courtesy and common sense. You surprise a client like this at a closing and your audit career could be in the $hitter before the report is dry.
I agree it is worth disputing as a major, and it was incredibly bad form to spring this NC on you in the closing meeting.
The original question was, however, what happens now.
Major NCs often get different follow up. The time to respond with an action plan may be shorter. You should have been informed of that in your closing meeting as well. I suggest you contact your CB's customer service representative for answers to these questions.
The original question was, however, what happens now.
Major NCs often get different follow up. The time to respond with an action plan may be shorter. You should have been informed of that in your closing meeting as well. I suggest you contact your CB's customer service representative for answers to these questions.
Randy,
We really don't know the entire story. Something could have been said at the closing meeting that contradicted what was originally presented/told to the auditor. A situation like this is very rare I would think but the audit is not over until the closing meeting ends. What if the auditor's 'audit trail' is checked during a random ANAB audit of his organization? They look closely at Management Review and no doubt ANAB would probably issue a non-conformance and then the auditor is in trouble. I worked for a Registrar about 8 years ago. ANAB audited our project folders on a regular basis. Seemed like they were there every calendar quarter.
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