Management Commitment - The owner of our company does not allow me to implement

E

energy

#11
Re: Just do it!

Fire Girl said:

What to do? I did it anyway. They had tried for 3 years to get certified, had hired consultants the whole nine yards. Nothing. I came in, worked my magic certifed in 3 months. I made everything very simple.

Kind of ballsy but if I know I'm right I don't mind sticking my neck out. I also had to pick and choose my battles. When they simply wouldn't budge but I knew it had to be done, I just did it anyway and figured they couldn't really give me slack if it worked out.

I'm still here and now have certified them to ISO 9000:2000. I guess I did ok.

FG
FG,

Count the "I"'s. :vfunny: Did your Registrar audit anybody but you or anything without you there to explain it or to guide them? That flies in the face of what Registration to ISO is supposed to be. As Randy has so humorously posted, I paid the price because I was not going to do the work that other Managers were tasked to complete. Purchasing Manager was responsible for Purchasing, Engineering Manager responsible for Engineering. A mistake? Absolutely, if fear of loss of employment is foremost in your mind. What the heck, an auditor wouldn't know the difference, would they? Obviously not. All of our Managers were given all the necessary information, generic examples and plenty of coaching. Nada. True the CEO blamed me, but where was my Top manager's commitment and yours and the understanding of what the standard required of them? True you got the certification and a job. But before you say "Just do it", circumstances may be a little different for others. Your statement "They wouldn't budge, so I did it" isn't something to be proud of considering the requirements of the standard, IMHO. But, you're right, you still have a job. ;) Sorry FG, but I just had to express my sorry opinion. We go back a ways but what's good for some geese isn't always good for all Ganders. :agree: :smokin:
 
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M

M Greenaway

#12
Absolutely Energy - its been a long time since we agreed on something !

I dont want to wet on anyones parade here, and achieveing ISO9001:2000 certification by whatever means is worthy of credit, but in all honesty it is not that difficult to achieve if you know the tricks of the trade and a soft certification body (there are many to choose from).

What is infinately more difficult is running a QMS that has real top managment buy in, and achieves real value for the organisation is satisfying its customers today, and tomorrow.

Like energy said the fact that you have had to step in and do some of the donkey work that is rightfully the responsibility of others probably means your quality effort will have little or no real tangible benefit for the company in either satisfying customers or continual improvement.

Sorry to be a damp squib - again !
 
F

Fire Girl

#13
Hold on a sec...

Energy.... we do go back a long ways...

Anyway, I didn't necessarily have the commitment of the head man, but I did get help from other employees and managers. This is a very small company (<25 people).

While there is supposed to be committment from Top Management, he just really doesn't want anything to do with whole system. Now I deal with the vice president and plant manager. I gave up on the president.

I still think the company gets stuff out of the system. We work through customer complaints and NCR's etc. Things are inspected, audits are conducted. Generally if I just sidestep the big guns when he disagrees he sees that it all works out in the end.

At the end of the day... I still think I am left with my integrity thank you.

FG
 
E

energy

#14
I love Fire Girl

M Greenaway said:

Absolutely Energy - its been a long time since we agreed on something !
Martin,

I still believe in doing the bare minimum to obtain certification. But, we couldn't even achieve that. :bonk: It made no sense to me to "do it all", even if I could. Maybe I'm wrong, but I assumed that a good Auditor would sense that in a heartbeat. Particularly when others were asked to explain why they were doing what they were doing. I once said I would pay handsomely just to get Registered. But, that meant we would at least have the basics in place and that everybody would know the program. As Fire Girl said, nothing over the top. Simple. FG was able to pull it off and has every reason to be proud of the accomplishment. My point was, we shouldn't all be expected to do it all or alone. It's not legal :vfunny: But I am a little jealous because I'm not as good looking as her.;) :smokin:
 
E

energy

#15
Re: Hold on a sec...

Fire Girl said:

At the end of the day... I still think I am left with my integrity thank you.

FG
FG,

We must have both posting at the same time. Otherwise, I would have crafted my previous post a little different. Your integrity was never in question. You now say you had a lot of help from other Managers. You had indicated, previously that "you" did it and your post was titled "Just do it". So, I responded negatively to that idea. We couldn't come close to getting that kind of buy in. Like you, I did 80% of it. It wasn't enough. My Steering Committee was ineffective and comprised of Managers that felt that ISO was the only reason I was there. Plain and simple. They collectively decided, probably over cocktails, that pursuit of ISO Certification was a bad idea and so was I. :vfunny: Anyway, water under the ice! You also said your Company seems to get a "little" out of it. What does that mean? It still sounds like your Company may have caught a break from the Certification body. Count your blessings. Good job.:truce: :smokin:
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#16
FG,

After reading your clarification it sounds like you did the best you could under less than ideal circumstances. Like Energy, I initially was a little turned-off by your many "I" references (i.e. "I came in, worked my magic certifed in 3 months.) Surely you did not do it ALL yourself, and such an attitude would tend to drive-away potential supporters. But I understand a little better now, I think.

But the integrity issue is an important one. Like Energy said we shouldn't be expected to do it all ourself. But rarely is there a perfect job to be found, and most of us at one time or another find ourselves putting up with a bit more sh1t than we'd like to in the interest of keeping our jobs. Each person has to decide when it gets to be too much and bail-out. Trouble is, it can be real hard to find a safe place to land before jumping in today's economy.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#17
While there is supposed to be committment from Top Management, he just really doesn't want anything to do with whole system.
FG your lucky you got a soft Registrar, and your auditors were probably mushy brained clods! If I were to be told that during an audit there would most likely be a severe lack of objective evidence of Top Management committment:vfunny: After playing 20 questions with the boss the chances of my being a happy camper would be slim to none.

As for the "I's" you used....this tells me that this is your system and not the organizations. The managers and employees helped some? Ain't no way on God's Green Earth that you could convince me that the system you describe is real and will function as designed and required. "I's" will not make an effective system (PERIOD)!!!!!! There is no "I" in TEAM. I've looked, I'm and educated man, I can't find 1 anywhere.

If your thr MR your supposed to be the primary motivator, the project manager, the cheerleader, not the primary doer. You're supposed to make things happen, not perform the tasks yourself. You've fallen into the trap and lucked out with your Registrar and auditors. A blind man can see it.

Ain't I nasty?;)
 
T

Tom Harris

#18
Randy said "There is no "I" in TEAM. I've looked, I'm and educated man, I can't find 1 anywhere".

No "I" in TEAM for sure. But there IS a 'me' if you look hard enough.

Agree with the rest of what you say, though.
 
E

energy

#19
Now, don't be so nasty!

Randy said:

FG your lucky you got a soft Registrar, and your auditors were probably mushy brained clods! If I were to be told that during an audit there would most likely be a severe lack of objective evidence of Top Management committment:vfunny: After playing 20 questions with the boss the chances of my being a happy camper would be slim to none.

Ain't I nasty?;)
As I seem to have started this sh1tstorm, let's go back a little. After reading FG's responses to the use of the word "I", the Head Honcho is the one who doesn't care about the system in FG's company. I remember in an old thread that Marc, Martin G and others said that auditing the CEO wasn't necessary to determine if a company is in compliance. So, if he/she appointed Top Managers to run the company and nobody was silly enough to tell you that the CEO/President doesn't give a rat's patooey, how would you know otherwise? Not even a mushy headed auditor would do that. FG never told the Registrar that she did it alone. She told US. When FG said "she" did it, it appears that "she" had to use her influence (good looks) to get it done because some Managers didn't care. Don't be so harsh, Nasty Man! :vfunny: Fire Girl, I feel real bad now. ;) :smokin:
 
N

Nosmo King

#20
Is there some crossed purposes here?

Randy is talking of an "effective system", but energy is talking only of "compliance".

Two different things? - maybe not even related? Just my thought.
 
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