Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process

F

FrameReader

#1
Hello,

My company is going for its first certification. We're about a year into the process. All top management has been involved in the implementation of the QMS, with one notable exception - the CEO.

The CEO is more focused on sales and growing the business. He travels frequently, and doesn't attend the meetings where we discuss our QMS. I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't up-to-speed with the KPI's that we've come up with for our service, and that concerns me some - not because I think he really needs to know - but more because I'm afraid the auditor might corner him and start asking him questions about our QMS.

So my question boils down to - if all but one member (the CEO) of a company's top management is up-to-speed with the QMS, can the company still be in comliance with clause 5.1 (the management commitment clause)? Even if he doesn't attend any management review meetings? Or would the CEO's relative detachment from the nitty gritty details of the QMS amount to a nonconformity to clause 5.1?

I would welcome your opinions. Thank you.

FrameReader
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment

If your managers and executives do your bit sensibly and the CEO lets you do it, then there is the CEO commitment.
Management review is the requirement and "meeting" is your way of doing the review. So even if he is not in your meeting but he has the communications of the records and does not stop you with what you plan and intend to do, there is all the management involvement / commitment.
I am sure the next line managers to the CEO have the due authority and responsibility to implement and maintain the QMS.
How will the auditor corner him if he is still away on travel ... :cool:
Do not worry on that. Auditors purpose is something more than what you envisage. They will look at demonstration of the management commitment at various levels which I guess you have it all ~~~
 
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PE-2011

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment

Excellent Answer Mr.Somashekar,

This fundamental I am using. Absolutely there is no problem.

Regards
Maheswari
 

Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#4
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Hello,

My company is going for its first certification. We're about a year into the process. All top management has been involved in the implementation of the QMS, with one notable exception - the CEO.

The CEO is more focused on sales and growing the business. He travels frequently, and doesn't attend the meetings where we discuss our QMS. I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't up-to-speed with the KPI's that we've come up with for our service, and that concerns me some - not because I think he really needs to know - but more because I'm afraid the auditor might corner him and start asking him questions about our QMS.

So my question boils down to - if all but one member (the CEO) of a company's top management is up-to-speed with the QMS, can the company still be in comliance with clause 5.1 (the management commitment clause)? Even if he doesn't attend any management review meetings? Or would the CEO's relative detachment from the nitty gritty details of the QMS amount to a nonconformity to clause 5.1?

I would welcome your opinions. Thank you.

FrameReader
Do not be disheartened over CEO absence during meetings. He has bigger activities to pursie and that might be keeping him busy. The very fact, all the others in the Management are so active is an indication that there is "CEO Blessings".

You are 100 % compliant with Clause 5.1 and pursue your goal :)
 

qusys

Quite Involved in Discussions
#5
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Hello,

My company is going for its first certification. We're about a year into the process. All top management has been involved in the implementation of the QMS, with one notable exception - the CEO.

The CEO is more focused on sales and growing the business. He travels frequently, and doesn't attend the meetings where we discuss our QMS. I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't up-to-speed with the KPI's that we've come up with for our service, and that concerns me some - not because I think he really needs to know - but more because I'm afraid the auditor might corner him and start asking him questions about our QMS.

So my question boils down to - if all but one member (the CEO) of a company's top management is up-to-speed with the QMS, can the company still be in comliance with clause 5.1 (the management commitment clause)? Even if he doesn't attend any management review meetings? Or would the CEO's relative detachment from the nitty gritty details of the QMS amount to a nonconformity to clause 5.1?

I would welcome your opinions. Thank you.

FrameReader
I see no problem for this issue.
I think that delegation is ok as per what you said.
Probably you have also designed and reported the delegation in the related job descriptions of the mgmt representavies or have evidence of the responsibilities and authorities of each figure.:bigwave:
 

silentrunning

Inactive Registered Visitor
#6
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

I would be sure to document in some fashion that you have provided the CEO with all the data pertaining to the effectiveness of the QMS. You probably would never need to prove it, but it would be nice to know it is there.
 
#7
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Much as I hate to strike a discordant note ... :notme:
Hello,

My company is going for its first certification. We're about a year into the process. All top management has been involved in the implementation of the QMS, with one notable exception - the CEO.

The CEO is more focused on sales and growing the business. He travels frequently, and doesn't attend the meetings where we discuss our QMS. I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't up-to-speed with the KPI's that we've come up with for our service, and that concerns me some - not because I think he really needs to know - but more because I'm afraid the auditor might corner him and start asking him questions about our QMS.
Firstly there is nothing wrong with your CEO trying to grow the business. When I last looked I think that is still in compliance with ISO 9001 requirements. :D

If I were you I would ask him. If your KPIs are selected to reflect genuine issues then he should be interested and should be happy to endorse them and to speak to an auditor about them.

Secondly the auditor should be requiring a meeting with the CEO in the audit agenda. IF they don't then they are not doing a proper job. But they are not there to ask about document control and records but about leadership and planning.

So my question boils down to - if all but one member (the CEO) of a company's top management is up-to-speed with the QMS, can the company still be in comliance with clause 5.1 (the management commitment clause)? Even if he doesn't attend any management review meetings? Or would the CEO's relative detachment from the nitty gritty details of the QMS amount to a nonconformity to clause 5.1?

I would welcome your opinions. Thank you.

FrameReader
So in answer to your question if the CEO is not engaged in leadership and planning for quality (the bits in clause 5.1) then there should be a nonconformity against requirements dotted throughout clause 5 - Management commitment. However just because you don't see him all over the system don't assume he doesn't know and support what is going on - ask him in advance of the audit. If you ask him in the right way you may even prepare him for the 3rd party audit. :)

If your managers and executives do your bit sensibly and the CEO lets you do it, then there is the CEO commitment.
Agreed. From the information presented I would say the jury is still out. FrameReader has a concern and I share it. The only way of assessing whether the commitment exists is to ask the top man (in this case). For any initial assessment I have done for 9001 the first appointment after the opening meeting is with the senior person on site. That sets the scene for the audit and gives leads to follow.

Management review is the requirement and "meeting" is your way of doing the review. So even if he is not in your meeting but he has the communications of the records and does not stop you with what you plan and intend to do, there is all the management involvement / commitment.
Management reviewis at the end of system implementation so Management commitment is written through all of clause 5 with top management involvement in planning and communicating system requirements.

Then, again through review, top managers look back over the system they planned and see that it is working as intended.

I am sure the next line managers to the CEO have the due authority and responsibility to implement and maintain the QMS.
As above the CEO should always be part of the assessment and their leads followed through lower tiers of managers.

How will the auditor corner him if he is still away on travel ... :cool:
Do not worry on that. Auditors purpose is something more than what you envisage. They will look at demonstration of the management commitment at various levels which I guess you have it all ~~~
One measure of commitment will be for the CEO to be available for an initial assessment. We can assume there is evidence at other levels but don't forget all section 5 refers to what 'top management' shall do

Do not be disheartened over CEO absence during meetings. He has bigger activities to pursie and that might be keeping him busy. The very fact, all the others in the Management are so active is an indication that there is "CEO Blessings".

You are 100 % compliant with Clause 5.1 and pursue your goal :)
As above I agree the CEO has a lot of other things to do. I could argue that there is nothing bigger (over a long period of time) than the management system and satisfying customers but will leave that to another thread. :notme:

But again - on the information presented - I do not believe the company meets the requirements of clause 5 - but the answer is easily found by asking the CEO.
 
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Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#8
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Boris, I will have to disagree with you ... is it only by attending those meetings, the CEO can show his commitment and involvement ?

There are lot of ways in which the CEO could stay updated on the management system - he could go through the meeting minutes or have his designated persons update him when available.
 
#9
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Boris, I will have to disagree with you ... is it only by attending those meetings, the CEO can show his commitment and involvement ?
Please feel free to disagree, Ajit. You have asked a question that wsn't in the OP but I am happy to answer it ... No, attendance at meetings is not a prerequisite of commitment but it is an indicator. The OP has expressed concerns and I tend to agree with his misgivings.

There are lot of ways in which the CEO could stay updated on the management system - he could go through the meeting minutes or have his designated persons update him when available.
Again agreed. But we do not have this information and until we do my concern would be that, if interviewed, the CEO would not be able to demonstrate commitment.

There are a hundred different ways of showing commitment but until we see at least one from the CEO then I disagree with you and with a couple of other posters and share FrameReader's concerns.
 

Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#10
Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Precisely Boris - we are sharing same thought. Since the OP was very concerned that his CEO is not attending management system meetings at the expense of business, myself and other posters commented that its not an issue at all. :)
 

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