Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification process

[Paul Simpson]

Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Precisely Boris - we are sharing same thought.

With respect I think we are not. I'm not sure which of the points in my post you feel are the same as yours.

Since the OP was very concerned that his CEO is not attending management system meetings at the expense of business, myself and other posters commented that its not an issue at all.

For the third time the non involvement is an indicator of a lack of commitment ... not a smoking gun but nor is it a reason to say 'everything will be OK.'

 

[silentrunning]

Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Does the CEO of Ford Motor Company attend each QMS meeting? How about Halliburton or General Electric? Sometimes it is impossible for them to attend, I'm sure.

 

[somashekar]

Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Management reviewis at the end of system implementation so Management commitment is written through all of clause 5 with top management involvement in planning and communicating system requirements.

Management review can be at many stages and perhaps many times during system implementation.

One measure of commitment will be for the CEO to be available for an initial assessment. We can assume there is evidence at other levels but don't forget all section 5 refers to what 'top management' shall do

It is good if CEO is there but not essential. His presense in the opening meeting and closing meeting would just suffice. If the management commitment is visible and the management system well knit and interacting, his absence shows more of CEO confidence in the managers and independence to operate and manage.

As above the CEO should always be part of the assessment and their leads followed through lower tiers of managers.

Not necessarily ...

 

[nmgmarques]

Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Would it not be enough for the CEO to outline in a written document his vision and goal for ISO 9001 implementation? And describe the delegation process, who is responsible for maintaining the QMS and how he keeps up to date and therefore committed to the process (say, by receiving quarterly reports on these matters where a summary of the meetings and activities is presented). He can then act on these reports by email or whatnot (duely registered for sure), without having to be fiscally present at the meeting , and at the same time keep within the lines of compliance, right?

You have commitment in written form, information and feedback via reports, influencing and decision making via his replies to them. Hence he is now part of the process with minimal effort.

 

[vanputten]

Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

The CEO doesn’t have to be involved for the same reason sales staff does not have to be involved. Sales and growing the business are unrelated to awareness of the interrelated processes that make up the management system.

If you are worried about compliance to the standard, please don’t. You will pass. Who doesn’t? And if you get a nonconformance, the worst case scenario is that you will get a major and the auditor will have to return onsite within 90 days to review your corrective action. Actually worst case scenario is that the auditor will stop the audit but I doubt that would ever happen.

You will pass and get your certificate to hang on the wall. I am going to ask our registrar if they can add more colors to the certificate to make it a little prettier as it hangs on the wall.

I believe the Wharton School of Business at the University of Pennsylvania did a study and found that the average tenure of CEO’s in the Untied States was 2 years. No need to get the CEO involved in the management system since they will get their bonus and move on.

From the Wall Street Journal on 5/9/2011:

Chief executives at the biggest U.S. companies saw their pay jump sharply in 2010, as boards rewarded them for strong profit and share-price growth with bigger bonuses and stock grants.

The median value of salaries, bonuses and long-term incentive awards for CEOs of 350 major companies surged 11% to $9.3 million, according to a study of proxy statements conducted for The Wall Street Journal by management consultancy Hay Group.

From the Wall Street Journal on 4/1/2011:

The Deepwater Horizon oil rig was a Transocean rig. Transocean's executives received two-thirds of their target safety bonus. Safety accounts for 25% of the equation that determines the yearly cash bonuses.

Also, the executives of Borders Books got their bonuses after they filed for bankruptcy.


From a compliance stand point, no, the CEO doesn’t need to be involved. From an optimization stand point, “Should the CEO be involved?” is a totally different question.

 

[somashekar]

Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Would it not be enough for the CEO to outline in a written document his vision and goal for ISO 9001 implementation? (The quality policy and established and reviewed quality objectives as required in ISO9001 clause 5.3) And describe the delegation process, who is responsible for maintaining the QMS (Responsibility and authority defined, documented and communicated as required in ISO9001 clause 5.5.1) and how he keeps up to date and therefore committed to the process (say, by receiving quarterly reports on these matters where a summary of the meetings and activities is presented). (Approval and / or changes to the decisions and actions in the management review outputs as required in ISO9001 clause 5.6.3) He can then act on these reports by email or whatnot (duely registered for sure), without having to be fiscally present at the meeting , and at the same time keep within the lines of compliance, right? (As required in internal communication ISO9001 clause 5.5.3)
You have commitment in written form, information and feedback via reports, influencing and decision making via his replies to them. Hence he is now part of the process with minimal effort.

(yaaa.... This is in fact what the ISO9001 requires a organization to establish, and is stated in the clause 5 of ISO9001 Management responsibility)

Good one marques

 

[Al Dyer]

Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

You are a year into the process, management is involved and has the required authority. Why should the Owner etc.. need to be involved? I would be glad that if he/she were not involved!

Al...

 

[Jen Kirley]

Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

Such good responses so far!

Top management commitment at CEO level looks different than it does at incrementally lower levels. The higher up the chain, the more it's about providing resources, consistently signaling support of activities (including training of managers) needed to achieve effective systems toward certification, and exhibiting behavior that is consistent with the signals. This tends to set the culture needed for people to work in a common purpose and achieve as an organization.

Lower down the chain we will incrementally find more and more active participation, and evidence of such activities.

 

[cmeby]

Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

The management clause is there to ensure that the commitment STARTS at the top and is supported. This does not mean the CEO has to be there EVERY time...but if they are not, there should be Objective Evidence that they have been informed (minutes of the meeting and review of the content) and that they agree with the actions resulting from the management review.

Any auditor that does not ask to meet and discuss the QMS with the CEO is not following through on the guidelines. If the CEO is not available, they will ask for PROOF that they have delegated and approve the actions of the management team.

They need to be at least aware, and cannot remove themselves entirely.

On another note, I worked for a large multi-national company with over 12,000 employees. Our CEO would make the time for 2 management reviews a year. Every 6 months. It is in their advantage to do so, and demonstrates commitment.

The system actually provides the CEO with important information and KPI's if it is designed properly and the way it was intended. Why would they avoid that information?

 

[nmgmarques]

Re: Management Involvement / Commitment - CEO involvement in the certification proces

(yaaa.... This is in fact what the ISO9001 requires a organization to establish, and is stated in the clause 5 of ISO9001 Management responsibility)

Good one marques

Thank you, sir!