Search the Elsmar Cove!
**Search ALL of Elsmar.com** with DuckDuckGo including content not in the forum - Search results with No ads.

Management Representative is an Accountant

D

dbproject

#1
hi,

the employer i work for decided to appoint an accountant for management representative and I have tried to convince him that the MR should be in connection with quality and should has a great knowledge about quality
but I couldn't convince him

So, Is it possible for an accountant to be a Managementٌ ٌٌRepresentative for ISO 9001:2008 ?
 
#2
hi,

the employer i work for decided to appoint an accountant for management representative and I have tried to convince him that the MR should be in connection with quality and should has a great knowledge about quality
but I couldn't convince him

So, Is it possible for an accountant to be a Managementٌ ٌٌRepresentative for ISO 9001:2008 ?
Of course! Some organizations (many in fact) have no such "quality" person.
 

harry

Super Moderator
#3
Contrary to what many thought, the Management Rep doesn't need to carry out his duties himself but like other managers, he can get things done through other people and play the co-ordination role. This is especially true in small organizations where everybody is playing a part on top of their regular duties.

To be effective, he should have sufficient power and access to top management and therefore having some one like the Accountant is good in this aspect.
 
#4
The requirement is simply that the management representative be a member of management.

One of the old lingering ideas is that the management representative has to also be the quality manager. It just isn't so.

Some of the best quality management systems I have been involved with have the accountant as the management representative. If they have the time available in their work schedule, they have many of the qualities that can make them an effective management representative. Most important of all, they know how the business is run and largely what makes it tick.

One of the topics they tend to excel in is using KPI, once they become familiar with the fact that not all KPI should be financial.

No matter who is tasked in the end to be the management representative, the system will be most effective if all of management is behind it and all employees are involved. If the right person for the job is a financial guy, so be it.

If management works together well as a team, does it really matter which one of the perhaps many capable one actually head the team?

I'm reminded of an Ann Landers column back in August of 1998 titled "These lessons Not Just For the Birds" aka "What We Can Learn From Geese".

Please especially note Fact #3.

Fact #1 ? As each bird flaps its wings, it creates uplift for the bird following. By flying in a "V" formation, the whole flock adds 71 percent greater flying range than if one bird flew alone.

Lesson Learned ? People who share a common direction and sense of community can get where they are going quicker and easier because they are traveling on the strength of one another.

Fact #2 ? Whenever a goose falls out of formation, it suddenly feels the drag and resistance of trying to fly alone and quickly gets back into formation to take advantage of the lifting power of the bird immediately in front.

Lesson Learned ? If we have as much sense as geese, we will stay in formation with those who are ahead of where we want to go and be willing to accept their help as well as give ours to others.

Fact #3 ? When the lead goose gets tired, it rotates back into the formation and another goose flies at the point position.

Lesson Learned ? It pays to take turns doing the hard tasks and sharing leadership.

Fact #4 ? The geese in formation honk from behind to encourage those up front to keep up their speed.

Lesson Learned ? We need to make sure our honking from behind is encouraging, and not something else.

Fact #5 ? When a goose gets sick or wounded or shot down, two geese drop out of formation and follow it down to help and protect it. They stay with it until it is able to fly again, or dies. Then they launch out on their own, with another formation, or they catch up with their flock.

Lesson Learned ? If we have as much sense as geese do, we too, will stand by each other in difficult times as well as when we are strong.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#5
the employer i work for decided to appoint an accountant for management representative and I have tried to convince him that the MR should be in connection with quality and should has a great knowledge about quality
but I couldn't convince him

So, Is it possible for an accountant to be a Managementٌ ٌٌRepresentative for ISO 9001:2008 ?
Possible? Yes. Advisable? Not so much in my opinion.
According to ISO 9001, the management representative (MR) should have ultimate authority and responsibility for the QMS. S/he must be competent for the function/role of MR. As ISO 9000:2005 defines competence as
demonstrated ability to apply knowledge and skills​
a typical beancounter accountant would not posses the KNOWLEDGE of quality management to effectively lead an organization's QMS, in my opinion.

In my experience, most accountants actually see "quality" as a revenue drain, an avoidable or reduceable cost and they want spend as little as possible in "quality" as they can.

So, I do share your concern that an accountant would not be the most advisable person to be assigned with the ultimate responsibility to effect a functioning QMS.

Obviously, the specific person in your organization could be an atypical accountant and actually be an enlightened professional who understands the strategic role of quality in the organization journey, but that would be the rare exception and not the rule.
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
It is possible but not advisable. Besides the financial system is not part of the ISO quality management system and hence the accountant will not be competent in the role of MR
If that accountant is so good to be made the MR, and he understands the QMS principles., then I guess he can in some way bring the finance part (resource) into the QMS process interaction and this will go a long way in bridging gaps in the smooth business operation and QMS performance. If that accountant person is mature enough and a member of the management, and if he needs training about MR functions, its more good to have him, train him, and make him successful as the MR ... :2cents:
 
D

dbproject

#8
hi,

you all are professionals in what you do, and I really appreciate your help

so, an accountant can be assigned for MR role

actually, the assigned accountant has a good background and information about quality and management insists to appoint him, so, they prepared him for studying six sigma.

can six sigma be useful & helpful for him to implement quality requirements?

& the dilemma here, that the management can't define the job description for the MR position and they can't define the processes and steps to implement the responsibility mentioned in clause 5.5.2 in ISO 9001:2008

could you please, give me some information about how can we implement the roles of MR?

I really appreciate your help
 
Last edited by a moderator:

John Broomfield

Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
hi,

the employer i work for decided to appoint an accountant for management representative and I have tried to convince him that the MR should be in connection with quality and should has a great knowledge about quality
but I couldn't convince him

So, Is it possible for an accountant to be a Managementٌ ٌٌRepresentative for ISO 9001:2008 ?
dbproject,

Being as the people adding value through their work are responsible for quality, it makes sense for the System Manager (aka Management Rep) to be someone who understands the organization as a system that should be interacting with its customers and suppliers to create more successful stakeholders.

That person may well be the Accountant who can advise the CEO on his or her organizational management system so it does a better job of helping the employees (and suppliers) to determine and meet requirements.

Not to mention the reporting of costs arising from activities that fail to add value for customers.

John
 

Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#10
If that accountant is so good to be made the MR, and he understands the QMS principles., then I guess he can in some way bring the finance part (resource) into the QMS process interaction and this will go a long way in bridging gaps in the smooth business operation and QMS performance. If that accountant person is mature enough and a member of the management, and if he needs training about MR functions, its more good to have him, train him, and make him successful as the MR ... :2cents:
Totally agree ... thats an idealistic thought ... hardly I have seen accountants to be good in QMS :)

It would be great if everyone in the organization subscribes to quality, isnt it ?
 
Top Bottom