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Management Representative is NOT a member of Management

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L

LUV-d-4UM

Quite Involved in Discussions
#232
#232
I have never seen a Quality Management System that is 100% supported by the President. In order to get things done, we MR's (per experience) have to let the President know why we do things and what's in it for theprofitability of his company. Sometimes that works. If he trusts his MR,he will say "Do it".
 
D

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#233
#233
LUV-d-4UM said:
I have never seen a Quality Management System that is 100% supported by the President. In order to get things done, we MR's (per experience) have to let the President know why we do things and what's in it for the profitability of his company. Sometimes that works. If he trusts his MR,he will say "Do it".
Click to expand...
Try working in small shops - I could count at least 15 or more (I am the third party auditor) in which - it is the President / owner that has vested interest in Quality /growth and customer satisfaction - they will also let me know that they back the decision (most of the time - taken together on quality issues) of the MR.

Yes, I agree with Sidney in his perspective. Even if a NRC is written - they replace the MR, re due their Flowchart and away they go. This is why rev C has shifted the focus to the top upper management.
 
Jim Wynne

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#234
#234
dsanabria said:
Try working in small shops - I could count at least 15 or more (I am the third party auditor) in which - it is the President / owner that has vested interest in Quality /growth and customer satisfaction - they will also let me know that they back the decision (most of the time - taken together on quality issues) of the MR.

Yes, I agree with Sidney in his perspective. Even if a NRC is written - they replace the MR, re due their Flowchart and away they go. This is why rev C has shifted the focus to the top upper management.
Click to expand...
How would a third-party auditor go about objectively determining the authority of the MR?
 
D

dsanabria

Quite Involved in Discussions
#237
#237
Jim Wynne said:
Does this = "I don't know"?
Click to expand...

Nah! - I actually learn more on how the place is run and who is in controlled when I do my coffee Donuts interview and then I go to upper management - confirm observations and then go to the quality inspectors and learn the truth (using scenario described by the MR ....


Talking to people would give the insights into what is happening. The fact is that the MR /and top management decision will always be verbal and you will find people with agenda - thus - will never learn the actual process into you do the interview - and no guarantees.

Remember - a good accountant knows how to hide money but a good fraud / forensic accountant know how to find it.

The bigger question - Does an NCR to MR add value to the process?:popcorn:
 
Jim Wynne

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#238
#238
dsanabria said:
Nah! - I actually learn more on how the place is run and who is in controlled when I do my coffee Donuts interview and then I go to upper management - confirm observations and then go to the quality inspectors and learn the truth (using scenario described by the MR ....


Talking to people would give the insights into what is happening. The fact is that the MR /and top management decision will always be verbal and you will find people with agenda - thus - will never learn the actual process into you do the interview - and no guarantees.

Remember - a good accountant knows how to hide money but a good fraud / forensic accountant know how to find it.

The bigger question - Does an NCR to MR add value to the process?:popcorn:
Click to expand...
If a third-party auditor takes it upon herself to decide whether documenting a given nonconformity will "add value," objectivity has flown out the window and all hope is lost. If there's a nonconformity it should be documented with no exceptions.

Although I've never done 3rd-party auditing, I've done plenty of 2nd-party audits, and in my experience there's usually no way to know--with objective evidence--whether the MR has the requisite authority. I also know from experience that MRs having the authority required by the standard are rare. If a significant requirement of the standard can't be objectively verified, the requirement should changed.
 
A

andrev

#239
#239
The standard is still clear in english and any other language,just remember whether you are nominated the M/R or the deputy M/R this must be written as such in your quality manual.Define,define and then the auditor wont have reason to ask questions.
 
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