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Management Representative - Member of Management?

S

samsung

#11
#11
20110611a said:
The MR should be part of the senior management team for the MR role to be truly effective.

Designating one of the middle/line managers as MR may be fine from a pure compliance and certification perspective. However, this is not the best arrangement from the impact-on-business and perceived-value-to-business perspective.

In many ISO 9001/27001 organizations the quality/information security head/manager is allowed to wear the MR/CISO hat but if the quality/information security head/manager is not part of the operations and functional review meetings his/her contribution to business value-add from ISOs is generally a marginalized one.

Note: CISO (Chief Information Security Officer) is MR-equivalent in a typical ISO 27001 implementation.
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Very good points. I also agree with Sidney. The "key concern for an MR is AUTHORITY". Infact, Management Representative is not a job, it's a role - a role that derives authority from the top to steer the management system, to organize design, development, maintenance and improvement of the processes. Apart from authority, ability is also one of the important aspects. An MR should be able to define requirements for the processes so as to consistently achieve the business objectives. He should also be able to lead and coordinate with a team of process owners for effective management and control of all processes needed to achieve the business objectives. He should have the authority to procure and mobilize the resources when needed. He should also have the ability to collect and analyze the data to not only evaluate and report the system's performance to top management but also to identify (and justify) the opportunities for improvement.

In short, MR isn't a position/role that can be assigned to anyone in the organization. It's not just about managing audits and meetings but to plan, organize and control the entire management system. It's one thing for someone to hold a managerial position (or being part of mgmt.) but the role of MR is more than just being a manager which in no way to say that the OP isn't capable to hold the position of an MR. It's to be decided by his/her top management who should be assigned the responsibility to steer the management system primarily to give a firm assurance to the customers, to the owners and all interested parties that the organization is capable to consistently meet it's business objectives or say satisfy their requirements and expectations.
 
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S

sandstone

#12
#12
I have faced numerous audits and as far as this point is considered the auditors are usually fine with anyone being a MR as long as he is on the payroll of the company and should not come under contract basis. One more thing to be noted here is that there should be an appointment letter issued on his/her name by the respective authorities and his/her responsibilities should be mentioned in some official ISO 9001:2008 document or standard operating procedure.
 
somashekar

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#13
#13
sandstone said:
I have faced numerous audits and as far as this point is considered the auditors are usually fine with anyone being a MR as long as he is on the payroll of the company and should not come under contract basis. One more thing to be noted here is that there should be an appointment letter issued on his/her name by the respective authorities and his/her responsibilities should be mentioned in some official ISO 9001:2008 document or standard operating procedure.
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Let us not do anything for the sake of the auditors, let alone appointing a MR. What ever we do must be to the benefit of our QMS and along the way comes the auditor now and then and sees that all is well (or otherwise) and reports.
Very good points from Sidney and Samsung above.
 
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T

tnott

#16
#16
So you are saying that there as to be an letter stating that the Plant Manager is choosing me to be the MR? I thought it was okay to state it in the Quality Manual?
 
Jim Wynne

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#17
#17
tnott said:
So you are saying that there as to be an letter stating that the Plant Manager is choosing me to be the MR? I thought it was okay to state it in the Quality Manual?
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There doesn't have to be a letter, or a statement in the QM, or anywhere else. There has to be a management representative appointed by top management. Unless there's a chance that multiple people in your company will claim to be the management representative, it's not a problem.
 
somashekar

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#18
#18
Jim Wynne said:
There doesn't have to be a letter, or a statement in the QM, or anywhere else. There has to be a management representative appointed by top management. Unless there's a chance that multiple people in your company will claim to be the management representative, it's not a problem.
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What Jim said is the greater picture. What I said is a means of that picture visibility...
Appointing you as the MR can also be an output of the management review (in the review records) and an interacted output of that could be the mention in the quality manual.
See what works for your organization. Make it visible and communicated. As you move along you will begin to meet the requirements.
 
A

Al Dyer

#19
#19
The Management Representative is a person that knows the requirements of the customer. The MR needs to be included in procedure but not policy statements. The MR is not "responsible" for compliance in any way. The MR "is" responsible for reporting to management the level of compliance to applicable standards. The MR usually has other job duties and must have working knowledge of manufacturing processes to carry out duties. A tough job!

Al...
 
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