Management Representative Requirements - ISO 9k2k Clause 5.5.2a interpretation

[juliov]

Re: ISO 9k2k 5.5.2a interpretation.....

Top management and management, what is the limiting factor between these two job responsibilities...I believe this is an important point because if a company were to appoint a person just for the sake of compliance to ISO and not considering continual improvements or failing to see how this requirement could help, the appointment of someone in low level management might not be taken seriously by other functions in the organization. It appears this req although very important to improvements is sometimes either not fully understood or ignored.

 

[Coury Ferguson]

Re: ISO 9k2k 5.5.2a interpretation.....

Yes, it does. It says "Top management shall appoint a member of management..."

My mistake Cari, you are right. I misread the paragraph.

 

[juliov]

Re: ISO 9k2k 5.5.2a interpretation.....

Thanks Cari. You are correct, organizations do want to be registered to ISO, however when implementing the ISO reqs in this case 5.5.2 it is interesting to see how the lack of knowledge or interpretation of this req causes organizations to incorrectly apply what would be a major asset in continual improvements.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: ISO 9k2k 5.5.2a interpretation.....

A member of managementn is not a "member of top management"
In fact he does not even need to be an employee
Clause 5.5.2 - RFI-027 Posted 2003-01-31
Other interpretations on ISO/TC 176's Interpretations website

I think that those interpretations were the result of widespread failure in practice, rather than original intent. The alternative was to not register companies where top management didn't participate and had failed to delegate responsibility and authority in the spririt of the standard. Which means that there would now be perhaps 10 or 12 registered companies.:mg:

 

[Cari Spears]

Re: ISO 9k2k 5.5.2a interpretation.....

Thanks Cari. You are correct, organizations do want to be registered to ISO, however when implementing the ISO reqs in this case 5.5.2 it is interesting to see how the lack of knowledge or interpretation of this req causes organizations to incorrectly apply what would be a major asset in continual improvements.

Exactly - the employer I referred to, for example, took me off of my CMM and stuck me in a cubby in the CAD room and expected me to get them registered to QS9000 (this was years ago) without any input from anyone else and without spending any money. They picked me because "it must be a quality function since it says 'Quality Systems' in the title". They thought I was "getting a little carried away" when I wanted to design and purchase some product identification tags. They simply had no idea what registration entails. As I said - I left. I got a job as the QA Manager with MR responsibilities at another company that actually let me do the job.

 

[juliov]

Re: ISO 9k2k 5.5.2a interpretation.....

I just read the interpretation posted in RFI -027 and it states that this MR although not a full time employee, he works full time "in a contract basis", let's not forget that under this description the person is an employee no less, he is following company's regulations, standards and policies, thus by definition he is a member of management. Would this be correct?

 

[Coury Ferguson]

Re: ISO 9k2k 5.5.2a interpretation.....

I just read the interpretation posted in RFI -027 and it states that this MR although not a full time employee, he works full time "in a contract basis", let's not forget that under this description the person is an employee no less, he is following company's regulations, standards and policies, thus by definition he is a member of management. Would this be correct?

Here are the definitions from ISO9000:2000:

management
coordinate activities to direct and control an organization (3.3.1)

top management
person or group of people who directs and controls an organization (3.3.1) at the highest level

 

[Howard Atkins]

Management is a type of job.
This could be a cultural thing but

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=management

man‧age‧ment  /ˈmænɪdʒmənt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[man-ij-muhnt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the act or manner of managing; handling, direction, or control.
2. skill in managing; executive ability: great management and tact.
3. the person or persons controlling and directing the affairs of a business, institution, etc.: The store is under new management.
4. executives collectively, considered as a class (distinguished from labor).

I think that definition 4 shows this.

 

[juliov]

Frankly, an MR should be someone that is competent in understading at least what a quality system is and is familiar with a quality systems standard.
5.5.2 states that ("top management shall appoint a member of management who,......etc") Does that mean that by the definition of management stated by ISO 9000 and also according to the dictionary, then under this type of logic top management could appoint the maintenance department manager that without trying to offend anybody would not, have much experience with quality systems implementation, right? 5.5.2 requirement appears to leave much to uncertainty and interpretation, and a more solid description needs to be defined.

 

[Coury Ferguson]

Frankly, an MR should be someone that is competent in understading at least what a quality system is and is familiar with a quality systems standard.

I agree.

5.5.2 states that ("top management shall appoint a member of management who,......etc") does that mean that by the definition stated by ISO 9000 and also the dictionary top management could appoint the maintenance department manager that without offending anybody would not have much experience with quality systems implementation, right? 5.5.2 requirement it appears leaves much to uncertainty and interpretation, and a more solid description needs to be defined.

Technically yes, but ill-advised.