Management Review Meetings - Auditor issued an Area of Concern regarding our method

[Randy]

Re: Management Review Meetings

What if the meetings were not attended by the top management.Can you call the meetings MRMS?.How can the top management find time to attend a weekly MRM.Daily,WEEKLY,meetings where the top management is absent are not MRMS.Attendence of the CEO OR MD is necessary in an MRM.Lower level officers cannot represent top management unless they entrusted with all the executive powers.Mear letter of authority is not enough.
V.J.Brahmaiah

What if it rains roses and they smell like cabbage? You can play the "What if" game until the sun rises in the west and it won't change the facts that there are no requirements for a meetinge, anything to be done annually and no requirment for MR to have a documented procedure.

Your agruments and reasons contain more holes that a cheese grater.

 

[amanbhai]

Re: Management Review Meetings

What if it rains roses and they smell like cabbage? You can play the "What if" game until the sun rises in the East and it won't change the facts that there are no requirements for a meetinge, anything to be done annually and no requirment for MR to have a documented procedure.

Your agruments and reasons contain more holes that a cheese grater.

You make me smile.

 

[amanbhai]

Re: Management Review Meetings - Auditor issued an Area of Concern regarding our meth

With my experince as an auditor (subject to external audits very often), went through. I can tell you one thing. My auditor expects meetings, minutes of meeting documented, all agenda points discussed during the meetings, top management participation, actions that were agreed, time related targets, follow up of the actions. evidences of completed actions.
I can't tell my auditor that there is no requirement for meeting, or documents or out of the box things,.......I don't think he is gonna buy things like that.

 

[Randy]

Re: Management Review Meetings - Auditor issued an Area of Concern regarding our meth

Where is the "shall" for a meeting girlfriends? You're auditor can "expect" until his fanny falls off.

A review can be performed without a meeting

 

[brahmaiah]

Re: Management Review Meetings

What if it rains roses and they smell like cabbage? You can play the "What if" game until the sun rises in the west and it won't change the facts that there are no requirements for a meetinge, anything to be done annually and no requirment for MR to have a documented procedure.

Your agruments and reasons contain more holes that a cheese grater.

Allthough your reply is prety colourful in language,it has failed to cut the ice.
V.J.Brahmaiah

 

[howste]

Re: Management Review Meetings - Auditor issued an Area of Concern regarding our meth

I can't tell my auditor that there is no requirement for meeting, or documents or out of the box things,.......I don't think he is gonna buy things like that.

Why can't you tell your auditor that there's no requirement for a meeting? Is he unwilling to accept objective evidence? Show him the ISO 9001 standard containing his audit criteria. Clearly there is no requirement for a meeting. But it's certainly OK to have meetings if you want to.

 

[howste]

Re: Management Review Meetings - Auditor issued an Area of Concern regarding our meth

Allthough your reply is prety colourful in language,it has failed to cut the ice.
V.J.Brahmaiah

I don't think Randy intended to cut the ice. He intended to cut throught the confusion you're adding to the thread. The original poster said:

He stated that the standard requires that we have at least one meeting a year that reviews all of the 5.6.2. inputs. Comments?

Asking for more information from him doesn't change the requirements of ISO 9001. There is no requirement for a meeting, and no requirement for an annual frequency. Game over.

 

[brahmaiah]

Re: Management Review Meetings - Auditor issued an Area of Concern regarding our meth

Response to brahaiah's request for additional data:
Quality Manual
5.6. Management Review

5.6.1 General

The top management shall review the Quality Management System during regularly scheduled staff and projects meetings. This review identifies trends and adjusts policy and business plans as necessary. This review shall review the suitability of the Quality Management System, quality policy, quality objectives, changing business needs, customer satisfaction, operational and performance results, quality trends, continual improvement, assessment of resources, results of quality audits, and corrective and preventive action activities.

Records of the quality systems reviews shall be maintained.

5.6.2 Review Input

The input to the management review shall include information on:
• Audit results. (internal and external)
• Feedback from customers.
• Process performance and product conformity.
• Follow-up action from previous management reviews.
• Changes that could affect the Quality System.
• Improvement recommendations.

5.6.3. Review Output

Output from the management review shall include any decisions and actions related to:
• Improvement of the effectiveness of the Quality Management System and it’s supporting processes.
• Improvement of product performance related to customer and internal requirements.
• Resource needs.

2. All managers including the owner attend every meeting.
3. Rolling Agenda listed below...
Weekly Staff Meeting
Management Review Follow-up Schedule
September, 2009

1st Monday of Month (09/07/2009)
• Labor Day - OFF

Wednesday 9/9/2009 – 9:00 a.m.
Project Review Meeting

2nd Monday of Month (09/14/2009)
 CAR/PAR Status
o Internal Audit
o Review schedule prioritize as necessary
 RMA and Test/Repair
 On Time Delivery
 Monthly Inventory $ Breakdown

3rd Monday of Month (09/21/2009)
 Flexible Workforce (Training)– All Managers
 Quality Data Feedback to Shop Floor

4th Monday of Month (09/28/2009)
 RMA and Test/Repair
 On Time Delivery
 RONA Discussion
 Changes to QMS
o Training opportunities as a result of changes
o Impact to overall business
o Review and approve changes

On the outset your manual looks OK. But it is not OK from the point of normal practice.The reason are:-
1)It is highly improbable tha the owner finds time every week to attend the MRM.If he absents from the meeting ,such meetings cannot be labelled as MRMS.Because MRMs are called by and presided by top management only.
2)Every week your focus will be on the current issues and not concerning the performance during the whole year.
3)However you try you cannot inject the seriousness required in an MRM into a weekly meeting.(After all we are going meet after a few days again).
On this issue I stand by your auditor.It is prudent to be practicle than mear legal here.
V.J.Brahmaiah

 

[Big Jim]

Re: Management Review Meetings - Auditor issued an Area of Concern regarding our meth

On the outset your manual looks OK. But it is not OK from the point of normal practice.The reason are:-
1)It is highly improbable tha the owner finds time every week to attend the MRM.If he absents from the meeting ,such meetings cannot be labelled as MRMS.Because MRMs are called by and presided by top management only.
2)Every week your focus will be on the current issues and not concerning the performance during the whole year.
3)However you try you cannot inject the seriousness required in an MRM into a weekly meeting.(After all we are going meet after a few days again).
On this issue I stand by your auditor.It is prudent to be practicle than mear legal here.
V.J.Brahmaiah

The auditor made up his own rules, and you are doing the same.

 

[howste]

Re: Management Review Meetings - Auditor issued an Area of Concern regarding our meth

On the outset your manual looks OK. But it is not OK from the point of normal practice.The reason are:-
1)It is highly improbable tha the owner finds time every week to attend the MRM.If he absents from the meeting ,such meetings cannot be labelled as MRMS.Because MRMs are called by and presided by top management only.

Are you implying that the owner of a business is too busy to be involved in leading it on a day-to-day basis? What are you suggesting that the owner should be doing?

2)Every week your focus will be on the current issues and not concerning the performance during the whole year.

Is there something wrong with looking at current issues on a regular basis? Does the focus always have to be on the whole year? And why can't the trends for a whole year be reviewed and updated on a regular basis?

3)However you try you cannot inject the seriousness required in an MRM into a weekly meeting.(After all we are going meet after a few days again).
On this issue I stand by your auditor.It is prudent to be practicle than mear legal here.
V.J.Brahmaiah

I find your views to be opinionated, prescriptive, and impractical. I also believe they are inconsistent with both the requirements of ISO 9001 and the principles that the standard is based on.