Management Review - Signatures Required?

R

RosieA

#1
Management Review signatures

Has anybody run into this situation before?

New company, new registrar. I am told by my staff that our registrar requires that those attending management review meetings sign the minutes to "prove" that they were really there.

So I called the new Registrar and questioned this and was told that, indeed, they want the minutes signed, so no one can later claim they really weren't there. I asked where this was required in the standard, but they could not cite anything. (and I knew they couldn't)

I have worked with 3 other Registrars and have never had this issue. When I publish the meeting minutes, I list the attendees and also, those absent. I've never had a registrar question the veracity of this before. Why not just call us liars and question the truth of the minutes altogether?

Has anyone else fought this battle? What do you do when a Registrar has their feet planted on an issue, and it isn't specifically required by the standard? Should I fight this or give in?
 
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Randy

Super Moderator
#2
What's the big deal? Each registrar has a right (within certain constraints) to make special requirements. It's their certificate, you're just renting it.

This is a nickle and dime issue as far as I'm concerned. Who's it going to hurt, how much sweat do you have to break,and how much will it cost? If you don't like it, get another registrar.
 
#3
Interesting. But there is not requirement for Management Review Meetings . What if you elect to conduct management review without meetings? Randy has a good point with "What's the big deal?" If you are already doing things this way, then you are not really losing anything. If you are not, then that might be another story. I would begin to throw them a curve (because I hate to do things just becasue "I have to"). Instead of signing the minutes, I would have them sign an attendence sheet. A different time I would have them sign a letter. Or, start videotaping the meetings. A video tape is far better than minutes any day. Or I would stop, and let them write a nonconformance. Then esclate the nonconformance all the way up to IOS if necessary. But, I've also been called a jerk ( and worse) before. I guess the real question is how much bother is it really worth. Chose your battles. This might not be worth the fight (unless you are an idiot like me).
 

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Hi Rosie - I agree with Randy.

I have dealt with a registrar that required we have a procedure for the use of their registration mark. So, even though we did not use their mark on any advertisements or business cards, etc., I took 15 minutes one day and wrote a quickie.

On the other hand, I once worked with a registrar that required we conduct Management Review meetings quarterly. On this I could not humor them. I used the "Do Not Concur" and I built a business case in response rather than a corrective action. This was accepted by the registrar without incident.

I guess the point is - pick and choose your battles. Not every issue is a hill to die for. BTW - I send out a memo that includes the required attendees and the agenda. What I do (not for an auditor, but because some personalities will try to say "I was never told this") is use my copy of the meeting memo and have the attendees initial next to their name as they sit down. Takes no time at all. The minutes are distributed, and my copy is attached to the memo/signin sheet.
 

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
db said:
Interesting. But there is not requirement for Management Review Meetings . What if you elect to conduct management review without meetings?
Good point! I have seen other threads discussing intranet management reviews.
 
#6
Cari Spears said:
...What I do (not for an auditor, but because some personalities will try to say "I was never told this") ...
This is probably the best argument for signatures. Not because the "auditor told me so", but because the reality of the situation dictates it. I wouldn't think this should be a problem with management review meetings because the "boss" is usually there. But I have seen where the boss was the biggest violater. Good work Cari! :agree:
 
B

Bob_M

#7
How do you acquire signatures in a BIG or mulit-national company that might perform management reviews via conference call, video phone, or some form of online meeting?

If its not a major deal, just create an attendance signing sheet.

So much for paperless society. :p
 
R

RosieA

#8
I guess I get annoyed by all the little "special" interpretations I see from different Registrars, that were never directed or even inferred by the standard. In another example, I once had a registrar who insisted that employees have the quality policy memorized. The next registrar I had said his management would fire him if he insisted that a client have the quality policy memorized. Who is right?

Randy, it probably ISN'T a big deal for me to continue doing signatures, and I probably will, but this is one of the examples related to how ISO is interpreted, that has been discussed endlessly in these forums. It is a constant, irritating, frustration. And these things are not well advertized by registrars. They show up as "improvement notes" or "observations". If you're going to have quirky interpretations that differ form other registrars, then publish them in advance, don't make them surprises.

Randy, I realize you were being flip with your comment about changing registrars...that's hardly a quick and easy solution and nor is it one I can make on my own...I really wasn't looking for a flip answer.
 
B

Bob_M

#9
RosieA said:
I guess I get annoyed by all the little "special" interpretations I see from different Registrars, that were never directed or even inferred by the standard. In another example, I once had a registrar who insisted that employees have the quality policy memorized. The next registrar I had said his management would fire him if he insisted that a client have the quality policy memorized. Who is right?

Randy, it probably ISN'T a big deal for me to continue doing signatures, and I probably will, but this is one of the examples related to how ISO is interpreted, that has been discussed endlessly in these forums. It is a constant, irritating, frustration. And these things are not well advertized by registrars. They show up as "improvement notes" or "observations". If you're going to have quirky interpretations that differ form other registrars, then publish them in advance, don't make them surprises.

Randy, I realize you were being flip with your comment about changing registrars...that's hardly a quick and easy solution and nor is it one I can make on my own...I really wasn't looking for a flip answer.
Quirk:
Our registrar requires us to have a "deputy" management representative, which is basically a 2nd MR just in case the real MR is not available during an audit... Makes sense but did it need to be REQUIRED by the registrar? No Big deal, I added it to the Org Chart and Management Rep Work Instruction we already had. :rolleyes:
 
R

RosieA

#10
Bob_M said:
Quirk:
Our registrar requires us to have a "deputy" management representative, which is basically a 2nd MR just in case the real MR is not available during an audit... Makes sense but did it need to be REQUIRED by the registrar? No Big deal, I added it to the Org Chart and Management Rep Work Instruction we already had. :rolleyes:
I remember that one...it was two companies ago...BSI, right?
 
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