Management Review - Signatures Required?

B

Bob_M

#11
RosieA said:
I remember that one...it was two companies ago...BSI, right?
Yes. Not a big deal (unless you happen to have a 1 person company :biglaugh: )
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Randy

Super Moderator
#13
The selection of a registrar is a business decision. When you select one, you enter into a contractural relationship whereby the contractor and client agree to services & requirements vs compensation.

QMS Registrars are obligated to conform (give or take) to IAF Guide 62. The guide tells them the who, what, where, when and how of the registration business. They are bound to at the minimum insure conformance to the requirements of ISO 9001:2000 for registration, and they may also make certain other requirements of their own that may or may not be considered "excessive".

Absolute bottom line....it's a contractural relationship just like most other business arrangements. If you don't like it, get another contractor.
 

SteelMaiden

Super Moderator
Super Moderator
#14
Rosie, another option for you - if you actually prepare a report (I do, but it is not necessary) on paper, and you file your report (control of records) for evidence that the meeting was held, and what was reported on, just have everyone initial YOUR copy at the beginning of the meeting.

I've had people tell me that they did not know about something, but I've never had anyone say they weren't at the management review meeting. Oh well, there are several quick and cost free options available, I don't think I'd bother fighting it.
 
#15
RosieA said:
I guess I get annoyed by all the little "special" interpretations I see from different Registrars, that were never directed or even inferred by the standard. ...but this is one of the examples related to how ISO is interpreted, that has been discussed endlessly in these forums. It is a constant, irritating, frustration. And these things are not well advertized by registrars. They show up as "improvement notes" or "observations". If you're going to have quirky interpretations that differ form other registrars, then publish them in advance, don't make them surprises...
This is one of my pet peeves as well. I'm not sure that it is a case of interpretation, as much as it is a case of application. Registrars, and auditors, see soo many companies with "just enough to keep the flag" QMS that they want to make sure your system is "real". But like you said earlier: "Why not just call us liars and question the truth of the minutes altogether?" When it is your integrity that gets challenged you tend to take it personally.
 
C

ccochran

#17
Signatures

Rosie & group,

Interesting thread. Here's my take, for whatever it's worth. There are only four conditions that trigger my recommendation for taking any action within a company:
1) The action benefits your customers,
2) The action improves your internal performance,
3) The action removes a threat or thwarts a competitor,
4) The action is required by ISO 9001:2000 (...and this one is actually a distant fourth).

Do the *opinions* of the registrar fall into any of these categories? In this case, I don't think so. There certainly is no requirement that anyone sign anything related to the management review. Having the names of attendees typed on the records would be reasonable proof to me. If an auditor doubted the veracity of the names on the record, he could interview some people and determine in a matter of seconds whether the attendees were actually there or not.

Why fight something like this? Because over time there will be more invented requirements. As the years roll by, the accumulation of invented requirements will transform your management system into something unrecognizable. I come across this everyday in my work. I'll ask, "Why the heck are you guys doing this?" The answer, "Uh, I'm not really certain. I think it's something we did for the registrar. Not sure why."

I always require that auditors write their nonconformities in a two part "requirement / finding" format. This forces the discipline of finding a requirement before writing a nonconformity. Most of the questionable nonconformities go away when this format is used.

Talk to you soon,
CC

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Craig Cochran
Center for International Standards & Quality
Georgia Institute of Technology
[email protected]
 
N

noboxwine

#18
This is a HUGE deal !

As far as I am concerned, this registrar is in violation of bodies that the represent. If they do not cooperate and audit only to the standard itself, then I would report them to the appropriate governing bodies. This has nothing to do with Mgmt Review. It has everything to do with an objective and ethical audit process under the rules of the standard. What other registrar-imposed "shalls" will these clowns spring on you in the future ? Will they threaten your badge because they don't like the format of your process instructions ? Or your PM’s are not, in their opinion, frequent enough ?

If they can’t cite you verbatim from the standard itself, then you have zero obligation, period !

I don’t know about the rest of the gang, but it’s painful enough to struggle day in, day out for commitment from a pathetic and dimwitted management team. Now we will add more worthless tasks from an outside facsimile thereof ? :frust:

Another one of the many reasons why the registration process should be abolished, completely. Paying a lot of $$$ for more useless, opinion driven, busy-work, by a hapless auditor, yielding a negative return for YOU !

JMHO. Have a day ! :D
 
A

Aaron Lupo

#19
noboxwine said:
As far as I am concerned, this registrar is in violation of bodies that the represent. If they do not cooperate and audit only to the standard itself, then I would report them to the appropriate governing bodies. This has nothing to do with Mgmt Review. It has everything to do with an objective and ethical audit process under the rules of the standard. What other registrar-imposed "shalls" will these clowns spring on you in the future ? Will they threaten your badge because they don't like the format of your process instructions ? Or your PM’s are not, in their opinion, frequent enough ?

If they can’t cite you verbatim from the standard itself, then you have zero obligation, period !

I don’t know about the rest of the gang, but it’s painful enough to struggle day in, day out for commitment from a pathetic and dimwitted management team. Now we will add more worthless tasks from an outside facsimile thereof ? :frust:

Another one of the many reasons why the registration process should be abolished, completely. Paying a lot of $$$ for more useless, opinion driven, busy-work, by a hapless auditor, yielding a negative return for YOU !

JMHO. Have a day ! :D
Gee Mike tell us how you really feel! :biglaugh:
 
E

energy

#20
Barb made me do it!

noboxwine said:
I don’t know about the rest of the gang, but it’s painful enough to struggle day in, day out for commitment from a pathetic and dimwitted management team. Now we will add more worthless tasks from an outside facsimile thereof ?

Another one of the many reasons why the registration process should be abolished, completely. Paying a lot of $$$ for more useless, opinion driven, busy-work, by a hapless auditor, yielding a negative return for YOU !

JMHO. Have a day !
It's been awhile since I have thought of this, but this thread reminds me of what I miss the least. This type of auditor sounds like the ones discussed in http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=4049 and elsewhere. Read through this thread for some silly auditor behavior. :vfunny: :smokin:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
S Risk Management Review ISO 14971 - Medical Device Risk Management 4
G Management Review (integrated system) Management Review Meetings and related Processes 17
M Management review check-list Management Review Meetings and related Processes 3
S Management Review (9.3) - Management Review Minutes/Report ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 13
J ISO 13485 System 'soft start' - How to best reflect this in initial audits, management review minutes and other records? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 3
O ISO 13485 - Is management review required before stage 1? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
G ISO 17025-2017 Management Review reporting items - Inputs ISO 17025 related Discussions 1
I Management review in conformity assessment standards - Certification Bodies Management Review Meetings and related Processes 6
S Has anybody done IMS - Management Review Meeting ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 8
T Management review meeting workflow ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 9
Casana ISO 9001 - 9.3.1 Management Review - Attendees in a flat organization Management Review Meetings and related Processes 6
C Management Review Agenda Management Review Meetings and related Processes 20
Q Do Management Review records have to be on a controlled form? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 30
J ISO 9001:2015 Small Operation Management Review General Auditing Discussions 6
W ISO 9001:2015 Management Review Input Template wanted ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 1
G ISO 9001 - 9.3.1 Management Review - Content and Frequency Management Review Meetings and related Processes 12
S ISO 9001:2015 Clause 9.3.2 - MR (Management Review) - Adequacy of resources ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
Q How to run a Management Review Management Review Meetings and related Processes 10
S List of requirements for Management Review in IATF 16949 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
D EMS Management review outputs - Strategic direction of the organization Miscellaneous Environmental Standards and EMS Related Discussions 1
B How to comply with IATF 16949:2016 9.3.2.1k - Management review IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
E Template of a Management Review Agenda or Report in compliance with ISO 13485:2016 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
M FDA News USFDA Final Report – MDUFA IV Independent Assessment of FDA’s Device Review Process Management Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 0
R ISO 9001:2015 9.3 - Required inputs to the management review - Audit Nonconformance Manufacturing and Related Processes 14
T Difference between "data analysis" and "management review" ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 4
J 3 Questions about Management Review - ISO 9001 and IATF 16949 Management Review Meetings and related Processes 4
W Can 2 different sites under different Quality System have a common management review? ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 4
I Trying to explain some of the Management Review Inputs (AS9100D) Management Review Meetings and related Processes 10
W IATF 16949 Clause 6.1.1 - My first Major NCR (Management Review) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 57
H ISO 9001:2015 Cl. 9.3.1 - General Director doesn't participate in Management Review ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
Tagin Management Review - How elaborate should Management Review be? Management Review Meetings and related Processes 14
R University Research Project - Management Review Management Review Meetings and related Processes 17
G ISO 9001:2015 - Management Review 9.3.2 c) 5) - Monitoring and Measurement Results ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
B IATF 16949 Clause 9.3.2.1 - Management Review Inputs IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 1
B IATF 16949 Cl. 9.3.2.1 - Management Review Inputs - Process Effectiveness and Efficie IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 14
A How to satisfy the "Interested Party" Management Review Requirement ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
Z MRM (Management Review Meeting) Template for ISO 9001:2015 Management Review Meetings and related Processes 3
S What defines Top Management after a Merger? Quality Management Review (9.3.1) Management Review Meetings and related Processes 1
A ISO 9001:2015 Clause 9.3.2 - Management Review Inputs must be Documented? Management Review Meetings and related Processes 15
S Corporate Quality Manager keeping me out of the Management Review Meeting Management Review Meetings and related Processes 28
B Global / Local Management Review - ISO 9001:2008 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 8
D What should be included in Management Review Meeting for ISO 9001:2015? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 19
P Trending CAPA's in our Management Review Meetings ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 1
S Risk Management during Contract Review AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 14
P How CAPA's are trended in Management Review Nonconformance and Corrective Action 1
P Management Review - Performance and Product Conformity question General Auditing Discussions 7
Q Management Review - Alternative methods Management Review Meetings and related Processes 20
N Incompleted tasks from previous management review meeting Management Review Meetings and related Processes 1
N Suggestions for Management Review Presentation Management Review Meetings and related Processes 2
S Quality Assurance Manager involvement in Management Review AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 11

Similar threads

Top Bottom