Management Review - Signatures Required?

R

RosieA

#61
Randy said:
It already has been Mike and guess what....as long as there is no conflict between IAF guidance to ISO Guide 62 (QMS) or 66 (EMS) and the accreditation requirements the registrars basically have a blank check. ...........
See, now that was much more pleasantly stated than your previous posts. If you'd been this professional before I wouldn't have placed you in contention for this year's RUDE award. As it is now, you'll really have to work to get off the list. :eek:
 
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Randy

Super Moderator
#62
I guess I'm in for a lot of sleep loss now!!!

Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

Is there anything else you'd like to comment on? Contract language maybe?

Maybe some of our skins are just a little thin and our feathers get ruffled too easy.
 

Mike S.

Happy to be Alive
Trusted Information Resource
#63
Randy said:
It already has been Mike and guess what....as long as there is no conflict between IAF guidance to ISO Guide 62 (QMS) or 66 (EMS) and the accreditation requirements the registrars basically have a blank check.

Remember, an organization when it approaches a registrar is ASKING permission to display a certificate with the REGISTRARS LOGO on it. The cert belongs to the registrar, organizations just rent or pay for the privilage to display them, so to speak.
With due respect, I guess it has not been proven to my personal satisfaction.

By your explanation, why could the registrar not make the cert. easier to get than the ISO 9001 standard since, as you said, "the cert belongs to the registrar"?

I can see wiggle room and grey areas for registrars to decide for themselves how long they should take to audit, or with how many auditors, or what level of proof or evidence they may require to verify to their satisfaction that a certain "shall" is met. I get that.

But I am not satisfied that it is kosher for the registrar to be effectively adding their own "shalls" such as the one I mentioned (the registrar telling me I have to maintain my final test quality records for 3 years even if my procedure says 1 year). Or let's say the registrar tells me I cannot do any in-house cal's. and the longest allowed cal. interval is 6 months. That is not an issue of interpretation or level of evidence -- it the addition of a "registrar shall" for lack of a better term.

I'm not saying you are wrong, Randy, I am saying I have not seen evidence that this is "legal" for the registrars to do as allowed by their governing bodies. Your posts do not show me this (or else I am not seeing it).
 
R

RosieA

#64
Randy said:
I guess I'm in for a lot of sleep loss now!!!

Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

Is there anything else you'd like to comment on? Contract language maybe?

Maybe some of our skins are just a little thin and our feathers get ruffled too easy.
And maybe some of us could use a few charm school lessons... :D At some point, Marc is going to break and and tell us we're behaving badly. So I'll just leave it here and let you know if you win the award in December. ;)
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#65
RosieA said:
And maybe some of us could use a few charm school lessons... :D At some point, Marc is going to break and and tell us we're behaving badly. So I'll just leave it here and let you know if you win the award in December. ;)
I took and successfully completed a Dale Carnegie course many years ago. As for an award...machts nichts

Hey Mike.....

Let the auditors come in and find a failure to properly manage the Registrars Mark/Logo and see how exciting things get. The "MARK" is not mentioned in the standard, but the use of it is reviewed an nearly every surveillance by the auditors.

Legal, smeagle...if you sign a contract and agree to the terms guess who has the leverage?
 
R

Randy Stewart

#66
I just show them the door and say "see ya". Then call the account manager and ask for a new auditor. I refuse to let an auditor, or consultant for that matter, tell the company how it should operate. We meet the requirments of the standards, their personal wants have no merit or place in the system.

As for the "mark", as far as this company is concerned it may as well be 666. We have our certificates posted and provide electronic copies as needed for our suppliers and customers. That is the only use of logos we have. It is not on our documentation and we do not use brochures etc. It is just another file that sits on my pc. If you don't use it you can't misuse it.
 
A

Aaron Lupo

#67
Mike S. said:
With due respect, I guess it has not been proven to my personal satisfaction.

By your explanation, why could the registrar not make the cert. easier to get than the ISO 9001 standard since, as you said, "the cert belongs to the registrar"? ........................
An auditor should not be telling you how to do things or that you should be doing cal's every 6 months etc.. However, with that being said the auditor may be looking at the REGULATORY requirements for your company and if the REGULATORY requirments say you need to keep the records for 3 years and you are only keeping them for a year guess who is right, not ISO, not your procedure but the REGULATORY requirements. Now if that is the case the auditor should let you know this as well. Just another angle to look at. :truce:
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#68
Randy Stewart said:
I refuse to let an auditor, or consultant for that matter, tell the company how it should operate. We meet the requirments of the standards, their personal wants have no merit or place in the system.
I'll work for you guys as a consultant....no sweat. You apparently don't expect much. ;)

BTW...Rosie stated in another thread that she had found the contract language requiring the Management Review to be signed. Apparently the auditor/registrar was correct in this case.
 
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R

RosieA

#69
Randy said:
BTW...Rosie stated in another thread that she had found the contract language requiring the Management Review to be signed. Apparently the auditor/registrar was correct in this case.


....Hello? I never said that...maybe you have me confused with some other thin skinned subscriber?
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#70
http://elsmar.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=6661&page=1&pp=20

I think you stated you found the requirement in this thread. The again, I may be misunderstanding you. If so, forgive me.

RosieA said:
Registrar #1: Required by contract a stockist checklist. What was not in the contract was the requirement to have the quality policy memorized. Also, we wanted to have a deputy management rep and they said no. Oddly, registrar #2 required a deputy management rep.

Registrar #2: contracturally required a deputy mgmt rep. no other issues. Auditor said he'd be fired if he required us to memorize the quality policy.

Registrar # 3: Nothing outside the standard

Registrar #4: nothing in the contract, but I've discovered the signed mgmt review minutes issue, and there may be more...I've only just started looking.
 
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