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Mandatory documents vs shall "something" but without mandatory documents

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Randy

Randy

Super Moderator
#14
#14
The term "non-gratis" comes to mind. Someone being "non-gratis" for this type of activity just helps me get assigned work
 
Marc

Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration with a Mask on...
Staff member
Admin
#15
#15
sistoiv said:
In my poor opinion, if a 3rd party auditor nowadays sentences "ISO xxxx says..." it means that's at wit's end, I do not need
Click to expand...
I am not at all sure what you mean by "...it means that's at wit's end, I do not need...". If you believe an auditor is wrong in interpreting something you challenge the auditor. It is successfully done all the time. The key is to understand the standard and its requirements as well as any auditor. If you do not, it is your own fault. This stuff isn't rocket science.

I have seen companies stop an audit and call their auditor's manager to complain about an auditor's interpretation of what they believe is a faulty finding. And I have seen many audit 'findings' withdrawn on the spot.
 
B

Big Jim

Super Moderator
#16
#16
Marc said:
I am not at all sure what you mean by "...it means that's at wit's end, I do not need...". If you believe an auditor is wrong in interpreting something you challenge the auditor. It is successfully done all the time. The key is to understand the standard and its requirements as well as any auditor. If you do not, it is your own fault. This stuff isn't rocket science.

I have seen companies stop an audit and call their auditor's manager to complain about an auditor's interpretation of what they believe is a faulty finding. And I have seen many audit 'findings' withdrawn on the spot.
Click to expand...
It is really up to you, the auditee to be able to demonstrate you know the requirement and can explain how you handle it. Unfortunately, many auditors don't seem to understand this. If you do understand the requirement and have something in place to answer it do exactly as Mark directed, challenge the auditor. Remember that you get what you tolerate. Tolerate a bad audit finding and you will continue to have bad auditing.
 
Kronos147

Kronos147

Trusted Information Resource
#17
#17
Often in the audit I will review the requirement. If that means reading aloud from ISO 9001, so be it.

Then I follow and ask "will you show me how you satisfy this requirement, please?"

The really cool thing about the 2015 standard is that it is pretty general, and unique organizations find unique ways to satisfy requirements.
 
Randy

Randy

Super Moderator
#18
#18
As part of the closing meeting for an ANAB witness audit of one of my deliveries last year, a positive comment made by the ANAB auditor was about my going more than once into the standard (really complex one) with the client where I referenced the clause (4.0 shall stuff), the definitions of words within the clause (3.0 explaining stuff) and and the guidance (Annex A how it can look stuff) for the topic at hand while I explained what I needed and demonstrated how it all linked.......Answering many of the "why's" before they were asked and showing how I didn't want an impasse with my interpretation vs theirs, especially when we happened on inconsistency (non-conformance).
 
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