Manday requirements for recertification with multiple sites

[Diana Cadwalader]

I need some help with clarification of the rules re: recert mandays.

We are going for our recert to TS.

We have a corporate certification scheme that has the following facilities on it:

​

Corp = 200 employees (design, contract review, testing,)

​

mfg 1 = 264 employees (metals forming facility with no design or contract review)

​

mfg 2 = 18 employees (distribution center - pick pack and ship only)

​

mfg 3 = 277 employees (plastics injection molding)

​

mfg 4 = 425 employees (metals forming)

​

mfg 5 = 214 employees (plastics injection molding)

For a total of 1398 people employeed in the facilities that are included on the corp certificate.


So, we have 6 facilities that are running a common management system.

When figuring the mandays, do I take the total people of 1398 and then take those 9.0 days and spread them across facilities,
or
do we take the mandays for each facility based on the headcount at each facility? 29.5 days for the whole of the organization before any design related exclusions and corporate scheme exclusions?


Please help me to understand the proper way of doing this according to iaob. The rules are ambiquous enough that it can be interpreted any way.

Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CarolX]

Manday requirements

Hi Diana,

Let me say first of all that I know less than nothing about TS.

But isn't it up to your registrar to figure this out and to let you know how many auditors will be out and for how long?

 

[Diana Cadwalader]

Re: Manday requirements

It IS up to the registrar - - but who is to say that they will do it right, especially when there is a 20 day difference @ $1450 day. That is a $29,000 revenue stream difference.

I am not implying that the registrar would do anything that remotely unethical, but I need to know how to check them.

Thanks

 

[Coury Ferguson]

I need some help with clarification of the rules re: recert mandays.

We are going for our recert to TS.

We have a corporate certification scheme that has the following facilities on it:

​

Corp = 200 employees (design, contract review, testing,)

​

mfg 1 = 264 employees (metals forming facility with no design or contract review)

​

mfg 2 = 18 employees (distribution center - pick pack and ship only)

​

mfg 3 = 277 employees (plastics injection molding)

​

mfg 4 = 425 employees (metals forming)

​

mfg 5 = 214 employees (plastics injection molding)

For a total of 1398 people employeed in the facilities that are included on the corp certificate.


So, we have 6 facilities that are running a common management system.

When figuring the mandays, do I take the total people of 1398 and then take those 9.0 days and spread them across facilities,
or
do we take the mandays for each facility based on the headcount at each facility? 29.5 days for the whole of the organization before any design related exclusions and corporate scheme exclusions?


Please help me to understand the proper way of doing this according to iaob. The rules are ambiquous enough that it can be interpreted any way.

Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CarolX is correct it is the Registrar's responsibility to determine the mandays and how to go about it, in my opinion.

Also, common sense (which some people may say otherwise) tells me that you would take the 9 days and spread them out over all your facilities, in my opinion. But it still seems that the Registrar would be responsible for the days.

Reviewing IAF Guide 62 it says 14 days for the total number of 1398 employees for the initial audit days. But since I am not an expert in TS maybe I am referencing the incorrect Guide.


Coury Ferguson

 

[Diana Cadwalader]

Do i go by what Guide 62 says or with the IATF rules for achieving IATF recognition?

 

[Al Rosen]

I believe that if you have individual certs for each facility, they will consider them separate entities

 

[Coury Ferguson]

I believe that if you have individual certs for each facility, they will consider them separate entities

Al, I think she said that it is a Corporate Registration Certificate which encompass all their facilities under one registration.

Diana, The question of which rules I cannot answer that since I am only familar with TS. I use Guide 62 as the reference when recertiying.

Coury Ferguson

 

[Al Rosen]

I believe that if you have individual certs for each facility, they will consider them separate entities

I spoke too soon. Look at IAF Guidance on the Application of ISO/IEC Guide 62:1996, Annex 3, for an explanation.

 

[Diana Cadwalader]

Hi Al.
Thanks for this. I looked at this. I am still confused as to whether I should use the guidance in Guide 62 or if i should use the IATF issued Rules for achieving IATF recognition; Scheme for ISO/TS 16949:2002.

 

[Coury Ferguson]

Hi Al.
Thanks for this. I looked at this. I am still confused as to whether I should use the guidance in Guide 62 or if i should use the IATF issued Rules for achieving IATF recognition; Scheme for ISO/TS 16949:2002.

In my opinion Diana, use Guide 62.

Coury Ferguson