Manday requirements for recertification with multiple sites

[Al Rosen]

Hi Al.
Thanks for this. I looked at this. I am still confused as to whether I should use the guidance in Guide 62 or if i should use the IATF issued Rules for achieving IATF recognition; Scheme for ISO/TS 16949:2002.

I have a simple answer (at least in my mind). Call your registrar and discuss the issue. Tell him/her, "Be reasonable, do it my way".

 

[Kevin H]

Diana, Your registrar is going to be held to the requirements from the IATF - they in turn will pass them to you. Any exceptions to the general IATF rules have to be documented and approved and are open to review by the IATF. Don't forget, that your registrar prepares a packet that they send to the IATF for review and approval before your ISO/TS cert is issued.

So, the correct document is the IATF Automotive Certification Scheme for ISO/TS 16949:2002, which requires first tallying the audit days by site & employees (Remember this is a re-cert audit, so the required days are already less than for your certification audit, for example for a site with 101 - 250 employees, 5 rather than 8,) than take the corporate reduction based on the number of sites - reduce to 80 % for 2 to 9 sites, 70 % for 10 to 19, and then 60 % for 20 and above. Looking at the first edition of the rules, I come up with 33 man-days, before the 80% reduction.

That's my opinion, but with the automotive requirements, I think you'll find very few registrars who want to stray to far from the numbers recommended by IATF documents.

 

[Coury Ferguson]

Diana, Your registrar is going to be held to the requirements from the IATF - they in turn will pass them to you. Any exceptions to the general IATF rules have to be documented and approved and are open to review by the IATF. Don't forget, that your registrar prepares a packet that they send to the IATF for review and approval before your ISO/TS cert is issued.

So, the correct document is the IATF Automotive Certification Scheme for ISO/TS 16949:2002, which requires first tallying the audit days by site & employees (Remember this is a re-cert audit, so the required days are already less than for your certification audit, for example for a site with 101 - 250 employees, 5 rather than 8,) than take the corporate reduction based on the number of sites - reduce to 80 % for 2 to 9 sites, 70 % for 10 to 19, and then 60 % for 20 and above. Looking at the first edition of the rules, I come up with 33 man-days, before the 80% reduction.

That's my opinion, but with the automotive requirements, I think you'll find very few registrars who want to stray to far from the numbers recommended by IATF documents.

Thanks for that information it has enlightened me with the TS requirements that I was not familar with.

We knew someone would have some answers for Diana.

Thanks

Coury Ferguson

 

[hwang - 2009]

it should be 18.5 mandays totally

 

[hwang - 2009]

site number of site manday for each site
1 264 22% 49 313 5.5
2 277 23% 51 328 5.5
3 425 36% 79 504 6.5
4 214 18% 40 254 5.5
sum of site 1180 23
sum of supporting 218 18.5

totally 18.5 mandays

 

[joherjerwalla]

IATF Rules second edition - is the document binding for mandays calculation for ISO/TS audits. Registrars use this document for Quotes. The rules are straight forward. All auditors/ registrars are trained by the IATF modules how to apply the rules consistently.

Violations of these requirements put the Registrars with a risk of losing thier accreditation, if the cases are brought to the notice of IAOB/ IATF/ Oversight bodies like AIAG/VDA-QMC/SMMT.

These rules are readily available from AIAG at a nominal price . If your mail suggest the the Certification bodies are ripping you off , it will be a much smarter decision to look at these manday table in the rules & use your basic mathematical skills to calculate the effort required for audits. It will cost you less than 100USD & a few minutes to become more knowledgeable.

You should ask the CBs who have made the offers about the mandays estimated & the basis /calculations for the same. They should oblige you with the information.

Regards.
Joher

 

[Diana Cadwalader]

Thanks so much to everyone for your support and guidance.

I am not suggesting at all that the registrar may be doing anything sneaky, we have just had some difference of opinion internally of whether we calculate each facility's days independently OR if we were to take the aggragate of all employees and figure days on that aggragate.

I think I have got everyone straight now, thanks to all of the help and support I have gotten here.

I LOVE this site. I can typically work through any issue we have by reviewing past posts or by posting a new question. Thanks again!!