Master Document List - Obsolete Documents

T

Tyler C

#1
Quality Pros,

I did some searching and could not find anything relating to a Master Document List. I know this list is not required by the standard, but it is the method we have chosen for several identifications of our controlled documents.

It is an excel spreadsheet with several tabs. These include the Master Document List, Record Control List, External Documents List, and Obsolete Documents List. I understand listing all except the obsolete list.

Can anyone offer any feedback for me?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Marc

Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Admin
#3
Re: Master Document List

An obsolete list is just what it says. Typically in your document revisions history there is a final "Obsolete" entry. That said, whether a company keeps a revision history, and how far back it goes, is in part dependent upon the company, as well as any regulatory requirements.

If you want to see a simple, "standard" Master Document List", I posted this many years ago: http://elsmar.com/pdf_files/Doc_Matrix.pdf and http://elsmar.com/pdf_files/Doc_map_B.pdf

Does this help?
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted Information Resource
#4
<snip> ... These include the Master Document List, Record Control List, External Documents List, and Obsolete Documents List. I understand listing all except the obsolete list.
If the form of "control" you use is summed up as: "It is on this list therefore it is controlled".....
Then the "Obsolete List" is a positive record of do-not-use-it for copies that may be in someone's hands.

A pretty iffy control system, but I've seen it before.
 
T

Tyler C

#5
Thank you all for your replies. I apologize for not being very clear. I was trying to determine if I could get away with NOT including the "Obsolete Document List".

What I want to avoid is having a list that looks like:
Document X - rev A
Document X - rev B
Document X - rev C
Document Y - rev A
Document X - rev D

...and so on. I guess I just struggle with what value it adds.

I am not actually using this as a control system, more of just a way to identify location, retention, and retrieval. Any obsoleted documents will actually be unavailable to anyone in the company except myself and the General Manager. In a sense, these obsolete documents are still controlled, but only to the extent that no one can access them. They will only be used for past reference if needed, but only with my knowledge and approval. There will however be a list of the most up-to-date revisions that people can use to cross reference any document they may have to ensure they are working off the latest version.

I hope this clears it up a little. Thank you for the links Marc, I glanced through and my Master list is way smaller than the example you provided. I hope I never have to get that detailed with it.
 

Kronos147

Trusted Information Resource
#6
I understand listing all except the obsolete list.

Can anyone offer any feedback for me?
I relate obsolete documents with the new requirements of ISO 9001:2015 for change management (SEE: clauses 4.4.1 (g) AQMS and its Processes, 5.3 (e) Organizational Roles, Responsibilities and Authorities, 6.3 Planning of Changes, 7.5.3.2 (c) Control of Documented Information, 8.1 Operational Planning and Control, 8.2.4 Changes to the Requirements of Products and Services, 8.3.6 Design and Development Changes, 8.5.6 Control of Changes).

My change management program includes assessing changes and keeping the ability to "roll back" when things do go as planned.

Example:
Work Instruction 123 Rev.D says "wash, rinse, dry." We want to try without wash to save time. Work Instruction 123 Rev. E says "rinse, dry." There are some rejections. The change has initially be perceived as 'bad'.

An organization may choose to "roll back now by saving Work Instruction 123 Rev.D as rev. F, go out and retrain. Now you should be back to the same pre-change condition.

Another reason: you had a customer rejection. You do your root cause analysis and you see that the part was built using Work Instruction 123 Rev. D. Your system only has Rev.E on file. Was the problem already addressed? Is you root cause analysis effective?

I hope this helps!

Cheers,
Kronos
 
T

Tyler C

#7
Well, thank you Kronos147. That was the value of the list I was looking for. I think I would still be able to back track because I will still have access to the obsolete version and all of the revision history as well. The only difference is I wouldn't be using a list to determine this, rather the actual documents themselves. But still, this is an excellent point to consider.

I am currently working with the 2008 version, but I enjoy hearing how people are doing with the 2015 version. I'm sure there isn't much difference between the two in this case.
 
J

JoShmo

#8
Do you have experience of how engineering drawings are change controlled? They typically use something called a drawing change Note or something like that. They don't list the changes on the actual drawing (well, not in my experience of being in design) but simply record the number of the last note which affected that drawing. The drawing clerk doesn't keep extra logs etc, but they keep the changenotes for theat drg #. Why not do it that way?
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#9
2015 or 2008 version, makes no difference in how to handle obsolete documents. Control is control.

The means for making such documents unavailable for unintended use can be as simple as renaming the document "obsolete.xxx.xxx.xxx" or moving it to a folder named "obsolete" or "archive" or similar. Of course, specialty software will have specific methods for handling these documents.

It is important to not make this a difficult thing, so we can plainly define the process and effectively maintain it.
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#10
Quality Pros,

I did some searching and could not find anything relating to a Master Document List. I know this list is not required by the standard, but it is the method we have chosen for several identifications of our controlled documents.

It is an excel spreadsheet with several tabs. These include the Master Document List, Record Control List, External Documents List, and Obsolete Documents List. I understand listing all except the obsolete list.

Can anyone offer any feedback for me?

Thanks in advance.
Since you use the excel spreadsheet, you can decide to color the cell with a red or any other color to denote obsolete documents. You need not have a obsolete documents list as a separate column.
 
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