Master Document List - Obsolete Documents

T

Tyler C

#11
Thank you Jen Kirley. I am currently moving all obsolete documents into an obsolete folder on a drive that only my General Manager and I have access to. The only way an obsolete document could be in circulation is if I failed to pull it after it became obsolete. Instead of renaming the file, I simply add a watermark to the document "Obsolete [date of obsoletion]". I agree, I don't want to make this too difficult and that is why I'm trying to see if I can get rid of the obsolete list.

Somashekar, thank you for the good idea. I may see if there is a way I can do this, but I have one concern. Wouldn't the list then look like:
Doc X - rev A
Doc X - rev B
Doc Y - rev A
Doc X - rev C
Doc Y - rev B
...and so on. It seems the list would still be extremely long after several revisions with a lot of "junk" cluttering it up.

One thought for everyone to consider, if the point of my Master Doc List is to identify location, retention, and retrieval, wouldn't it be pointless to have obsolete here? I don't want everyone in my company to know how to access obsolete docs. If they need to reference back to one for whatever reason, they will have to come talk to me anyway and I know where they are.

Either way, I appreciate everyone's feedback.
 
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Ninja

Looking for Reality
Staff member
Super Moderator
#12
FWIW, I don't see a reason for most employees to have access to any document that is not the current version.

Access to previous revs and access to obsolete docs are the same thing...access to something you shouldn't use.

Why not have two tabs only in your XL sheet...current & previous?
 
T

Tyler C

#13
FWIW, I don't see a reason for most employees to have access to any document that is not the current version.

Access to previous revs and access to obsolete docs are the same thing...access to something you shouldn't use.

Why not have two tabs only in your XL sheet...current & previous?
Thank you Ninja. I agree 100% that no one should have access to previous revs/obsolete documents unless approved for reference during a root cause analysis for example. This is exactly why I struggle with including an obsolete list.

What I'm thinking I'm going to do, is just have a Master List for all current revs, an external list for any externally controlled documents, and a Record List. The Obsolete docs will remain in an Obsolete folder on a restricted drive with the obsoletion date on the actual document. This will help determine what rev anything was built to if there is failure. It will also help control the obsolete docs to ensure they don't get put into circulation once they've been obsoleted.
 

Kronos147

Trusted Information Resource
#14
Since you use the excel spreadsheet, you can decide to color the cell with a red or any other color to denote obsolete documents. You need not have a obsolete documents list as a separate column.
Another good point.

For what it's worth, I like Excel for a master doc list. One tab current, one obsolete. Each document has a notes field which talks about the reason for updating. It is nice to see something like this:

Form Rev Date Title Reason for change
0008 NC 7/2/2014 Management Review of QMS Adopted for new QMS structure
0008 A 9/22/2014 Management Review of QMS Added form references on page 1
0008 B 9/24/2014 Management Review of QMS Obsoleted form F 0038, moved OTD measurements to Production
 

Project Man

Involved In Discussions
#15
Is it just me or are we "living in the 90's" by using an excel spreadsheet for this?
We use a clear and secure file structure for all released documents with shortcuts and hyperlinks to documents in that folder as needed. I have one file called 'obsolete' that is the dumping ground for any document that is not current, again, with proper securities.
Anyone within our organization can go to the 'released documents' folder and read or print what they need.
 
T

Tyler C

#16
Project Man, I know Excel is not the best and that there is other software out there, but my General Manager doesn't want to buy software if we don't have to so I have been tasked with determining if it works in Excel. I think it will fulfill our requirements.

I like your set up. This is basically what ours is as well, but not everyone in the company has computer access, nor are they all proficient with computers.

The Master List I'm creating is basically a reference for everyone to determine what the current rev is for any given document, included with a hyperlink incase they cannot find the document (no matter how easy I set up the drive). It is an electronic reference for those with computer access, and a printed reference for those without, placed in a binder with all documents any employee may need.
 

Coury Ferguson

Moderator here to help
Staff member
Super Moderator
#17
2015 or 2008 version, makes no difference in how to handle obsolete documents. Control is control.

The means for making such documents unavailable for unintended use can be as simple as renaming the document "obsolete.xxx.xxx.xxx" or moving it to a folder named "obsolete" or "archive" or similar. Of course, specialty software will have specific methods for handling these documents.

It is important to not make this a difficult thing, so we can plainly define the process and effectively maintain it.
I agree here with you Jennifer.

The bottom line as I see it is that obsolete documents are not available for use, as a reference only, maybe. How to prevent use and/or maintain the obsolete documents is really a matter of resources available (money, personnel, etc). What works for the organization and maintains that control is what, to me, the important factor.
 

Kronos147

Trusted Information Resource
#18
Is it just me or are we "living in the 90's" by using an excel spreadsheet for this?
Yes. And no. COTO (Context of the Organization). How many forms are there?

Cool ideas I saw as an auditor:
-The company Wiki was a cool approach.

-Micro$oft sells Sharepoint. I think that is one helleva overkill product, IMHO. It does really lock down docs though.



My spreadsheet has all active links so people don't have to search for forms. I called all of our forms out by a number first. (Maybe not the best idea in hindsight.)

Go to the spreadsheet, search for "approved" and the approved supplier list, form 0024 is the first to display. Either click on the link to open or to the forms folder.

Once ou know the form number, go to the forms folder, hit "0 0 2 4" and you are on the document. Enter to open.
 

pbojsen

Involved In Discussions
#19
I am in the medical device business, so my answer is from that perspective.

A Master Document Register is a listing of all controlled documents, and includes the obsolete documents as well. In our register, we have the document number, current rev (including OBS for obsolete) as well as the change order number for the latest revision. We also have a cross-reference to any replacement document.

Why? I cannot tell you how many times someone wants to see the change order that made a document obsolete. It's very likely it also made a replacement document effective. Also, it does happen that a document is referenced in another document, and all of the documents didn't get updated at the same time, so an obsolete document is referenced. Putting this info in the Register just makes it easier for everyone, and makes finding the change orders that much easier.

It is especially helpful if you're updating your documentation system, and going from a more localized document numbering system to a global one. Cross references are the thing.

And yes, right now it's an Excel spreadsheet, soon to become a database with all sorts of nifty cross-references.
 
T

titus

#20
Re: Master Document List - Creating external control

First time handling ISO, we do have a master list but not for External documents trying to figure out how the whole master list works. tryin to straigten the mess
 
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