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Master Samples - What should we be keeping?

#1
I'm building a PPAP for a customer and Section 15 of the PPAP 4th addition talks about Master samples. I need help understanding exactly what we should be keeping as a Master sample to comply to the standard. If we take dimensional readings of our part from the production line if we keep one of the samples that we took dimensional reading from will this comply with the standard, or do we need to keep an actual sample from one of the pieces that we take performance readings from?
 
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Miner

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#2
It has been awhile since I have worked in automotive, so I cannot guarantee that this is still current. The master sample is taken from the same significant production run as the PPAP samples at a minimum. If possible, take the master sample from one of the actual PPAP parts. Take care in the storage of these master samples as well to prevent damage or degradation over time.
 
#3
Thank you. Follow up if we are doing a family PPAP would you need a Master sample for each part that is being supplied? The dimensional reading does not change per the value of the part but the part number does change so I didn't know if we just kept one Master sample is would comply for all.
 

Jim Wynne

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#4
Thank you. Follow up if we are doing a family PPAP would you need a Master sample for each part that is being supplied? The dimensional reading does not change per the value of the part but the part number does change so I didn't know if we just kept one Master sample is would comply for all.
If there are different part numbers, the parts must be different somehow, no? It's best to consult with your customer about this, but there should be a PPAP sample for each part number. As an aside, it's usually not a good idea to bundle multiple part numbers on a single PSW. The reason for this is that if you have one PSW for multiple parts, if one part is rejected, they all get rejected.
 

Miner

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#5
Thank you. Follow up if we are doing a family PPAP would you need a Master sample for each part that is being supplied? The dimensional reading does not change per the value of the part but the part number does change so I didn't know if we just kept one Master sample is would comply for all.
I am thinking of a situation where you have a single base part that has 5 different color paints applied creating 5 different part numbers. In that situation, you would need 5 master parts in order to show the different coatings. What is your scenario?
 

optomist1

A Sea of Statistics
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#6
Jim is spot on above..."It's best to consult with your customer about this, but there should be a PPAP sample for each part number."...and a bit more complex if you are dealing with injection molded parts, multiple cavities...esp. if there a re Class A surfaces, etc...AARs...
 
#7
If there are different part numbers, the parts must be different somehow, no? It's best to consult with your customer about this, but there should be a PPAP sample for each part number. As an aside, it's usually not a good idea to bundle multiple part numbers on a single PSW. The reason for this is that if you have one PSW for multiple parts, if one part is rejected, they all get rejected.
The part numbers is the electrical value of the part so that is how they are different. But the dimension of the part is the same in most cases. So would you suggest keeping a master sample for each electrical value even though the part has the exact same dimensions?
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
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#8
The part numbers is the electrical value of the part so that is how they are different. But the dimension of the part is the same in most cases. So would you suggest keeping a master sample for each electrical value even though the part has the exact same dimensions?
If the parts are different in any significant way, separate samples should normally be kept. It's not just about dimensional differences or lack thereof.
 

Miner

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#9
Look at it this way. Suppose one of the part number's electrical values ran near the spec maximum, still capable but not centered. Two years from now, your customer has a problem and questions the high values. Wouldn't you like to have a master sample to show that was how it was originally approved?
 
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