Measure "TYP" dimensions on a first article inspection (FAI) report?

M

Murakami

#1
Can anyone please tell me if you should measure "TYP" dimensions on a first article inspection report?


Thanks,
 
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S

someshvar

#2

Murakami,

Of course, you need measure them on FAI. What if the dimensions are repeated, after all they are for different features. Hence there are chances of variation between "TYP" dimensions.To capture the same you need to measure all the dimensions. I would suggest that you also do MSA for all of them if they are KPCs/ CTQs.

Just my 2 cents !!

Regards,
Hardik Someshvar
 
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F

Frank T.

#3
Can anyone please tell me if you should measure "TYP" dimensions on a first article inspection report?
When performing an FAIR all dimensions have to be verified/inspected whether it's a typical, nominal and/or a reference dimension.

Added in edit: Just out of curiosity, does this pertain to the Medical field? I ask because I am only familiar with FAIR's being associated with the Aerospace Industry.
 
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M

Murakami

#4
We manufacture Medical Devices. Most of our components are classII or class III parts.
Thanks for you help!!!

~Murakami
 

Wes Bucey

Prophet of Profit
#5
For what it's Worth:
First Article Inspections are typical across all industries.

Another FWIW: sometimes "TYP" is used to designate a feature which can be found in multiple places on the same part, BUT which does not have to be measured at an infinite number of places.

Consider a circular disk 250 millimeters in diameter, with a thickness of 25 millimeters (ignore the tolerances for the moment) with a groove with a bottom radius of 25 millimeters around the outer circumference of the disk (looks like a pulley). Nobody expects you to check every infinite degree fraction around the circumference to confirm the bottom radius of the groove - hence R = 25mm TYP (tolerances for all dimensions may be contained in a box in a corner of the drawing instead of with each dimension.)

A similar process might pertain for Surface Finish.
 
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#6
When completing inspection reports, we resolved it in three ways.

If it said (for example) R5.50 typ 3 places, we would record the dimension as measured in the three places.

If the drawing said R5.5 typ, we would record however many we found and make a note to that effect.

Sometimes, just to confuse us, drawing would say 3 places, and it was evident in 10 places. Record and report every feature was my answer. With a note to the customer!

If it was in hundreds of places, like a casting, then I'd report "R5.6 typical thoughout"

Regards

Paul
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#7
The correct answer to any question is "It Depends". The best person to answer that question is your customer. Some cases each and every feature with that dimension is equally important (all of the radii in a knurl on a medical implant device) and their expectations is all are measured and reported. In other cases, it is just a break edge (note to let them know it is there, do not measure them.) But. making those assumptions on behalf of your customer can be embarrassing when your report is rejected. Ask up front, be done with it. Some customers are actually reasonable.

I did say "some". :cool:
 
J

John Nabors - 2009

#8
I have always dealt with dimensions called out as TYP or (x)PLCS by measuring each occurence of the characteristic and then recording on the inspection report (1st article or otherwise) the highest and lowest reading I obtained(e.g. .0007 / .0016), or in the case of a unilateral tolerance the highest reading obtained followed by MAX (e.g. .0016 MAX). I can't cite any sort of standard to support this practice, it's just the way I've always done it and no one has ever squawked whether it's been in defense/aerospace, automotive, medical device, or semiconductor fabricatiion equipment and regardless of whether it's been machining, fabrication, plastic molding, or powdwer metallurgy.

Now if the customer or end user really wants to drown in information, we do periodic capability studies on all features designated by our customers as key characteristics and will happily provide them with that documentation.
 
M

MITUTOYO MAN

#9
I have really enjoyed this post as this is how I use the term Typical in a report. I report one measurement if the print says Typical and then report it as a typical measurement. For me if they were concerned then they would have added 6X or however many there are. The TYP is considered to be lazy, but to me it just means that it isn't really that important so not all measurments are required for the 6X times that it appears. Just my opinion.
 

Ronen E

Problem Solver
Moderator
#10
I have really enjoyed this post as this is how I use the term Typical in a report. I report one measurement if the print says Typical and then report it as a typical measurement. For me if they were concerned then they would have added 6X or however many there are. The TYP is considered to be lazy, but to me it just means that it isn't really that important so not all measurments are required for the 6X times that it appears. Just my opinion.
Hello and welcome to the Cove :bigwave:

I disagree. Sometimes it's impractical to be explicit with all instances, for instance with very small radii (<0.5mm) on plastic injection moulded parts. The drawing may become too crowded with dimensions, and sometimes it's even impractical to specify the number of instances (either because there are so many and it'd actually provide very little added value, or because of intricate part geometry causing it to be not-that-obvious to determine exactly how many are there). It doesn't necessarily mean that the actual dimension is not important or not required to be measured. There are formal ways of specifying such "lack of interest", if it is the case.

The questions of "what to measure" and "what to put in a measurement report" are separate to the questions of "what dimensions to explicitly specify, and how". The answers to the former depend on the situation and on the "client"'s expectations, which better be clarified when that client "orders" the measurement job.

When I was ordering a FAI of a complex plastic injection moulded part from a CMM operator for instance, I was being very explicit about what I expect. If a "TYP" dimension wasn't important I'd strike it off the list. If it was important, I'd explain that I expected results from all instances. I can't currently recall a situation where only some of the recurring feature / dimension where of interest to me, but I assume in such case I'd have sorted it out carefully with the measurement provider. I think leaving it to the discretion of the latter makes little sense; it's like saying "I don't really care about this feature, just make it look nice in the report so we can all say that whoever did the production job had an idea what they were doing". :)

Cheers,
Ronen.
 
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