Measureables for Document Control and Internal Audits

K

Kevin McG

#81
The time between when a DCR is requested and when it is routed is dependent upon whether the DCR submitted makes sense and is complete, whether attachments are included or I have to ask for them, whether the person submitting it hands me a marked up hardcopy I have to edit for them first, whether there is one document or ten, etc.

The time between when routed and when approved is dependent upon whether the approvers are travelling and it maybe out 2 days here, 4 days there, etc. Sometimes we use alternates, but often not. Sometimes there is one document to review, sometimes an entire PPAP package or new specifications.

?
xfngrs,

Just finished reading this thread...phew!! You generated quite a debate about the usefulness of Internal Audits but I am not sure that you got much much input about measureables for Document Control.

From your comments above, a simple measure you may want to consider for the Doc Control process is Right First Time i.e. what % of document change requests are processed completely the first time without going back to the originator for more data/attachments, or typed in by the doc controller, or cancelled, or rejected by the approver, etc. This will give an indication of the effectiveness of the process and the waste involved in in the 'rework' of documents.

Kevin.
 
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Helmut Jilling

Auditor / Consultant
#82
"...I have a hard time understanding howthe PRINCIPLES of auditing are different between 1st, 2nd,and 3rd party audits. The logistics and industry requirements (the 3rd party industry requirements) may be differnet. But I am not so sure the principles and aim of auditing is different for anybody.

Regards,

Dirk
I agree. I think the principles are pretty much the same. The techniques and approaches benefit from a more tailored approach. The internal auditor may have much more intimate familiarity with all the details of a company's operations, but usually has less experience in actual auditing. An external auditor, theoretically should have a lot more audit experience, management experience, at the expense of far less familiarity with the details of a particular company's system. Both have pro's and con's and together make a pretty effective audit. Perhaps the full time internal auditor has the best advantage of both.

A second party auditor may actually have less advantage. He is likely unfamiliar with the supplier's system, and may not have significant professional auditor experience.

But, the principles for all three are the same.
 

Paul Simpson

Trusted Information Resource
#83
xfngrs,

Just finished reading this thread...phew!! You generated quite a debate about the usefulness of Internal Audits but I am not sure that you got much much input about measureables for Document Control.

From your comments above, a simple measure you may want to consider for the Doc Control process is Right First Time i.e. what % of document change requests are processed completely the first time without going back to the originator for more data/attachments, or typed in by the doc controller, or cancelled, or rejected by the approver, etc. This will give an indication of the effectiveness of the process and the waste involved in in the 'rework' of documents.

Kevin.
Thanks, Kevin. It takes a newbie :)cool:) to bring the thread back on track some times.

My answer to the OP is don't bother with any process measures for either of these "processes" - generally they don't even get onto the radar in terms of business critical processes.
 
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K

King1

#84
Additional measurables for internal audits could be XX % completion of audits per schedule, something involving training (e.g., xx number of auditors obtain lead certification, xx % of corrective actions for nonconformances issued in internal audits completed per the required time frame.
 

xfngrs

Quite Involved in Discussions
#85
Jeez Louise as my Dad used to say.:jawdrop:

:thanx: all for the input:applause:, but I think my brain's going to explode. I'll let you all know what we decide to do...if we do decide.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#86
Jeez Louise as my Dad used to say.:jawdrop:

:thanx: all for the input:applause:, but I think my brain's going to explode. I'll let you all know what we decide to do...if we do decide.
Hello xfngrs,

By now, you've noticed how very passionate we Covers are....:yes:
BTW, select the measurements that make most sense to you.

Thanks to all my Fellow Covers.

Stijloor.
 
J

Jan T

#89
All of this information is mindboggling!!

Just a quick observation, in all of this entire debate I have not noticed anything about trending the findings of internal audits. This would give you information about repeat problems, or even areas such as doc control, information missing, operators not following procedures, training required, preventive maintenance, opportunities for improvement, etc etc.

This can be trended yearly and will easily show the effectiveness of the internal audits in helping to pinpoint problems or potential problems.


Regards
Jan
 
#90
All of this information is mindboggling!!

Just a quick observation, in all of this entire debate I have not noticed anything about trending the findings of internal audits. This would give you information about repeat problems, or even areas such as doc control, information missing, operators not following procedures, training required, preventive maintenance, opportunities for improvement, etc etc.

This can be trended yearly and will easily show the effectiveness of the internal audits in helping to pinpoint problems or potential problems.


Regards
Jan
Yes, it is an interesting read......

What you suggest are not related to the measurables of the audit process, IMHO, Jan, simply indications of the state of the QMS, or symptoms. It occurs to me that the 'product' of auditing is often measured, rather than the 'service' which is provided and has been debated here.

You're correct to state that trends should be evaluated, as part of overall audit management and reporting, but I personally don't see that that has anything to do with how effective the audit process is, however.
 
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