Measuring an internal groove for a snap ring suggestions

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#1
I have piece that has a groove cut into the ID in order to take a snap ring to retain the guts of the assembly.

The spec for the groove ID is 0.330"+/- .001"
thickness of the groove is a ref dimension of .019"

in your opinion what is the best tool for this job?

I'm leaving it wide open by not telling how we have been doing it.
Suffice to say I don't believe our current method is up to the tolerance.


TIA
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: Suggestions for measuring an internal groove for a snap ring?

I have piece that has a groove cut into the ID in order to take a snap ring to retain the guts of the assembly.
I'm not seeing this. This groove is internal to what? How do you get the snap ring in there?

The spec for the groove ID is 0.330"+/- .001"
thickness of the groove is a ref dimension of .019"
I think this is what's confusing me. How can a groove have an ID? And a thickness? Do you mean just diameter and width?

There are things like this for measuring internal grooves, but I've never found them to be very repeatable, certainly not with a +/- .001 tolerance.
 
#3
Re: Suggestions for measuring an internal groove for a snap ring?

A 0.0508mm tolerance witdh for a snap ring groove? That sounds a bit tight, but anyway: If you can fit it into the groove I would go for a three point micrometer... or why not a CMM. Both of those would also catch a deviation in roundness.

I share the confusion Jim mentioned, though: Could you provide us with a drawing?

/Claes
 
E

Ederie - 2007

#4
Re: Suggestions for measuring an internal groove for a snap ring?

I agree with Jim,
I have used (tried) alot of gages for the exact same type of measurement
(snap ring groove down inside a bore) and most will not give enough repeatability to hold a +/- .001.

I have have tried metrology puddy and measured grooves on a comparator,
(based off an accurate measurement of the ID)
not bad if your groove is being cut by the same tooling as the ID.

Section and use a comparator and/or height gage is another option,
again based of an accurate ID measurement.

The groove thickness is too small for most CMM probes , it also depends on how far down the groove is in the bore.

I'm going back a couple of years, if anything else comes to mind... I let you know.:confused:

Ed
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#5
Re: Suggestions for measuring an internal groove for a snap ring?

hmmm... I guess I'm calling things out in this company's somewhat odd nomenclature.

Can't do a drawing. only the CAD guy can change drawings, so I can't remove secret secret info.

try to picture this:

you have a cylinder with a bore down the length. The bore is .291" - .293" in diameter.
.063" down from one end, a groove is cut into that ID.
The diameter of that groove must be .311" - .313".
The width (height?) of that groove is .019".
This groove is accept an internal snap ring.

Does that make more sense?

Why it's +/- .001"? Because it was overdesigned but now we're stuck with it.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#6
Re: Suggestions for measuring an internal groove for a snap ring?

Why it's +/- .001"? Because it was overdesigned but now we're stuck with it.
I hate to say it, but I don't think there's a reliable way to measure it. If this is for an outside customer, it might be helpful to find out how they measure it. If it's an internal thing, you need to get a design engineer to tell you how it should be measured or change the drawing to something more realistic.
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#7
Re: Suggestions for measuring an internal groove for a snap ring?

I hate to say it, but I don't think there's a reliable way to measure it. If this is for an outside customer, it might be helpful to find out how they measure it. If it's an internal thing, you need to get a design engineer to tell you how it should be measured or change the drawing to something more realistic.
I was afraid of that.
Our customer knows that the tolerances are crazy, and on more than this one dimension, but they won't allow us to change. Too much cost for them to revalidate the finished assembly.

We're in in the process of designing a new part to replace this one and we're making the tolerances a lot more reasonable. But that's going to take a while.

Ederie mentioned sectioning and measuring on a comparator. Actually that's how we do first article. But we're trying to avoid that for in-process.
 

Wes Bucey

Quite Involved in Discussions
#8
Re: Suggestions for measuring an internal groove for a snap ring?

May I suggest you contact the engineers at Truarc Retaining Ring http://www.truarc.com/contactus.php and ask.

This is the successor company to Waldes Kohinoor, originally based in Long Island City. Waldes created the retaining ring industry during WWII.

I am aware Truarc used to sell an offset tool for cutting internal ring grooves. It would seem to make sense they know how to measure the groove.
 

ScottK

Not out of the crisis
Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
Re: Suggestions for measuring an internal groove for a snap ring?

May I suggest you contact the engineers at Truarc Retaining Ring http://www.truarc.com/contactus.php and ask.

This is the successor company to Waldes Kohinoor, originally based in Long Island City. Waldes created the retaining ring industry during WWII.

I am aware Truarc used to sell an offset tool for cutting internal ring grooves. It would seem to make sense they know how to measure the groove.
Done.
Thanks Wes.
 
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