Measuring Corrective and Preventive Action System Effectiveness

M

meta124

#1
Hello all

I am new to this forum but I have already read a few interesting views.

The company I work for uses the 8D methodology in order to record discrepancies and provide corrective and preventive actions. Now I need to find a way to measure the effectiveness of the process. Has anyone come across a similar situation? How do you measure your c.a.p.a. system?

I do apologise in advance if there is a similar thread already. It might be the case of this subject having been discussed in the past.

Thank you
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#2
Hello all

I am new to this forum but I have already read a few interesting views.

The company I work for uses the 8D methodology in order to record discrepancies and provide corrective and preventive actions. Now I need to find a way to measure the effectiveness of the process. Has anyone come across a similar situation? How do you measure your c.a.p.a. system?

I do apologise in advance if there is a similar thread already. It might be the case of this subject having been discussed in the past.

Thank you
Welcome to the Cove :D.

Scroll down to the bottom of this page and you'll see a list of related discussion threads. Have a look, and post back if you have questions.
 
C

ChuckHughes

#3
I suggest measuring effectiveness of both actions on the basis of root causes.

The intent of Corrective Action is to find the root cause and apply a fix to it. The effectiveness of corrective action is the degree to which the root cause already fixed, reappears. Often the symptom (customer complaint, inspection failure) has several root causes. The analysis of the corrective action system should focus on which root causes reappearred and/or how the corrective actions were applied. Either the corrective action process identified the wrong root cause or the application and verification of the "fix" was not effective.

In preventive action the analysis should begin with the appearance of the symptom you did not want. Again the analysis should focus on what root cause was most likely and how mitigation was applied.

Note that this approach may be confused by the 8D. The lack of appearance of repeat issues may be the result of enhanced inspection and not accurate root cause analysis.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
Hello all

I am new to this forum but I have already read a few interesting views.

The company I work for uses the 8D methodology in order to record discrepancies and provide corrective and preventive actions. Now I need to find a way to measure the effectiveness of the process. Has anyone come across a similar situation? How do you measure your c.a.p.a. system?

I do apologise in advance if there is a similar thread already. It might be the case of this subject having been discussed in the past.

Thank you
Measuring the effectiveness?

Simple!
  • Corrective action: The absence of recurrences.
  • Preventive action: The absence of occurrences.

Stijloor.
 
C

ChuckHughes

#5
Not that simple

How many times have "late delivery" reoccurred?

A fault tree analysis will find many root causes for the same symptom i.e. late delivery. The key is which root cause did we try to fix and did the same root cause reappear?
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#6
How many times have "late delivery" reoccurred?
Which means that whatever has been implemented before is not effective.

I do not want to trivialize measuring the effectiveness of PA and CA processes, but sometimes there is a tendency to make simple concepts way too complex. Going back to basics (intent and what we're trying to accomplish) brings us back to earth.

Stijloor.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#7
Which means that whatever has been implemented before is not effective.

I do not want to trivialize measuring the effectiveness of PA and CA processes, but sometimes there is a tendency to make simple concepts way too complex. Going back to basics (intent and what we're trying to accomplish) brings us back to earth.

Stijloor.
This of course assumes the process has been repeated under the same relative conditions as before, and that the only thing different is the change made through c.a.p.a. If even one variable is different, such as a different shipping company in the delivery process because various shippers are contracted, then one could doubt if a difference is from c.a.p.a. unless the change affects both carriers.

You see? You need to look for performance that the change actually impacted.
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#8
This of course assumes the process has been repeated under the same relative conditions as before, and that the only thing different is the change made through c.a.p.a. If even one variable is different, such as a different shipping company in the delivery process because various shippers are contracted, then one could doubt if a difference is from c.a.p.a. unless the change affects both carriers.

You see? You need to look for performance that the change actually impacted.
A detailed in-depth analyis as part of CA would bring this to light.

Stijloor.
 
C

ChuckHughes

#9
I think we are in fundamental agreement. I also opt for the simplist approach. In evaluating effectiveness of anything, we want answers that we can act on. We control only two actions when we perform corrective actions: our ability to find a root cause and our ability to perform a "fix". Reoccurance, as a measure of effectiveness, needs to be evaluated in the context of our actions.

Late delivery is a good example to use as there are hundreds of reasons why a company is never perfect in delivery for any length of time. Root causes are different for each event and one gets frustrated in measuring corrective action effectiveness in terms of "reoccurances". :bonk:
 

Stijloor

Staff member
Super Moderator
#10
I think we are in fundamental agreement. I also opt for the simplist approach. In evaluating effectiveness of anything, we want answers that we can act on. We control only two actions when we perform corrective actions: our ability to find a root cause and our ability to perform a "fix". Reoccurance, as a measure of effectiveness, needs to be evaluated in the context of our actions.

Late delivery is a good example to use as there are hundreds of reasons why a company is never perfect in delivery for any length of time. Root causes are different for each event and one gets frustrated in measuring corrective action effectiveness in terms of "reoccurances". :bonk:
Chuck,

Excellent points!

As an auditor (I am one too ;)), I am sure that you have observed sloppy CA and PA practices. Most of the CA (rarely PA) attempts that I have observed were merely quick-fixes; a topic extensively discussed here at The Cove.

My approach to this topic may be somewhat "blunt", but it usually gets the message across.

Recurrences are mostly due to ineffective CA. And I do understand that there are exceptions.

Great discussion.:agree1:

Stijloor.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Q Measuring Monthly Progress in Corrective Actions ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
Q Measuring Effectiveness in Containment Action or in Corrective Action? ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3
J Register of the monitoring and measuring equipment AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 2
B Risk analysis for defective measuring or measuring equipment out of calibration General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 2
R Tools used for measuring (New to metrology) General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 9
G Best way to calc uncert for measuring microscope without duplicating repeatability? Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 2
J Calibration cycle for monitoring & measuring tools used in medical device manufacturing General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 5
cnbrosa Study Type 1 on a CMM using a measuring support Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 4
M Determining a tolerance value for Measuring devices in-house inspection General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 12
D Accurately measuring Full Thread Length Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 11
R ULM Measuring Pressures General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
M Missing measuring equipment General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 6
Marco Bernardi MMC & LMC modifiers and CMM measuring techniques like diameter least squares and circularity or minimum/ maximum diameter Calibration and Metrology Software and Hardware 5
K Measuring Function MEDDEV 2.1/5 relation with MDD 93/42/EEC CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 2
M Measuring FIM (TIR) - Two inside diameters - Conflicting readings between inspectors Manufacturing and Related Processes 1
ScottK Measuring thread flank angle on a screw Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 1
D ASTM C1064 Temperature Measuring Device General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 2
B Measuring and monitoring equipment - Understanding which procedures to be compliant with ISO 13485 ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 6
C ISO 9001:2015 Monitoring and measuring resources. Application a service industry ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 7
V Ammeter calibration - Measuring head (on pic.) problem General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
D Monitoring and measuring resources - Example of how section ISO 9001 7.1.5 would apply to a manufacture of software ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 4
A CE mark - Measuring Instruments Directive confusion! CE Marking (Conformité Européene) / CB Scheme 0
M Measuring Capability of Process with Multiple Specifications Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 6
E ISO 13485 7.6 Control of monitoring and measuring equipment - Assess the Validity ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 4
D Measuring fine tubing (< 0.100") "Wall by weight" General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 11
G Posting Measuring Equipment Accuracy for User Information General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
S ISO 9001 7.1.5.2 - Actions Taken When Measuring Equipment is Found to be Unfit for Use General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 13
G ISO 9001 and ISO 17025 - Measuring tools not in calibration system General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 3
S Calibration - Isolated current meter - Measuring patient auxiliary leakage current Calibration and Metrology Software and Hardware 4
G Measuring customer parts on a CMM - How many decimals to report to the customer? ISO 17025 related Discussions 28
qualprod Complying with ISO 9001:2015 - 9.1.1 b - Monitoring, measuring, analyzing and evaluation ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
Tagin Measuring supplier quality with small quantities Statistical Analysis Tools, Techniques and SPC 10
G Uncertainty of staging a short line scale standard on longer measuring machine? Measurement Uncertainty (MU) 4
U Measuring a Golf Club Face/Grip/Shaft Rotation General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 7
Q Acceptable calibration accuracy of a 60" linear measuring device General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 16
H Measuring Design Process Design and Development of Products and Processes 4
C AS9100D 7.1.5.2 / Calibration of Employee Owned Measuring Equipment AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 5
M Effectiveness Measuring and Efficiency Measuring In ISO 9001:2015 ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 2
johnny johnson New measuring equipment selection (Cg/Cgk) Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 2
S Cleanrooms - Particle Measuring - ISO 14644 Other Medical Device and Orthopedic Related Topics 3
S IOQ protocol for a Micro-Vu measuring system - Is a PQ required? Qualification and Validation (including 21 CFR Part 11) 2
K ISO 13485:2016 Cl. 4.2.3 - Determine QMS Processes, Monitoring, Measuring, etc. ISO 13485:2016 - Medical Device Quality Management Systems 4
L Radius Measuring Tools General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 4
Proud Liberal Measuring axial and radial surface finish (16 Rz) on a broached internal radius Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 1
J IATF 16949 Cl. 7.1.5.2.1 - Gauges (Measuring Jigs) Calibration/Verification Records IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 6
Claes Gefvenberg Worst measuring equipment ever? Coffee Break and Water Cooler Discussions 6
J Measuring an Untrue Radius - Metal Stamped and Formed Parts Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 8
A Calibration Interval - AS9100 - Control of Monitoring and Measuring Equipment Calibration Frequency (Interval) 8
P Tool for Measuring - Do I have to do more than one Gage R&R for the PPAP? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
R Auditing Fitness of Purpose for Monitoring and Measuring Equipment ISO 9000, ISO 9001, and ISO 9004 Quality Management Systems Standards 3

Similar threads

Top Bottom