Measuring Internal Auditor Performance

A

ashley.surrey

#1
Guys,

Is the measuring the effectiveness of our Internal Auditors a requirement of ISO 9001:2008?

I (personally) believe its something we should be doing, but our current system and concentrates on effective closure of NC's they raise as apposed to their effectiveness.


Just wondering if anyone else had any thoughts or approaches they'd like to share?
 
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Colin

Quite Involved in Discussions
#2
Re: Measuring Internal Auditors Performance

Ashley - I am not sure if you are asking about measuring the effectiveness of the internal audit process (see 8.2.3 for monitoring the effectiveness of processes), or the effectiveness of the individual auditors (see 6.2 for competence of staff) or the effectiveness of corrective actions (8.5.2 f) for effectiveness of corrective actions taken).
 
M

Migre

#3
Re: Measuring Internal Auditors Performance

I would say it's a requirement. The standard states that personnel performing work affecting conformity to product requirements shall be competent on the basis of appropriate education, training, skills and experience. I'd include auditors in there and can't see how auditor competence can be determined if there is no measure of performance / effectiveness. And a measure of their performance / effectiveness should take in the audit process as a whole, not just the closure of NC's.

For what it's worth, I've rarely seen this done effectively. If there is a significant sized audit team in place, I believe an annual appraisal (of sorts) should take place, reviewing performance and effectiveness. However, I've seen previous instances where there has been a reluctance to offer genuine constructive feedback to auditors - presumably for fear of causing offence or fear of leading people into giving up the auditor role. I guess much depends on the person but I'd much rather be given constructive feedback if it will help me improve. I guess a problem may arise when the Audit/Quality Manager has a number of part time auditors contributing - do you keep them sweet and keep them in the role or give genuine feedback and hope they take it on board and develop further without taking offence and quitting to concentrate on their full-time role? I'm with the latter scenario.

Again, good luck with it all.

Mick
 
#4
Re: Measuring Internal Auditors Performance

Guys,

Is the measuring the effectiveness of our Internal Auditors a requirement of ISO 9001:2008?

I (personally) believe its something we should be doing, but our current system and concentrates on effective closure of NC's they raise as apposed to their effectiveness.


Just wondering if anyone else had any thoughts or approaches they'd like to share?
No, not exactly. You want to ensure they're competent, which certainly isn't a 'one shot' deal. We've discussed auditors' performance here, ad nauseum and, most metrics suggested seem to have little - in actuality - to do with the auditor, more to do with the state of the system or corrective actions!

I'd suggest you concentrate of a number of key points of competency, draw up a method of evaluations against those criteria and see what you get. If you look at the key steps of the audit process, planning, preparation, performance, reporting etc. you'll see that there's all manner of competency criteria that can be developed in each.
 
A

ashley.surrey

#5
Re: Measuring Internal Auditors Performance

Sorry Colin,

I suppose the root of what I'm trying to get to is the competence of the internal auditors, but more from a behaivoural and soft skills point of view.
 
D

Duke Okes

#6
Re: Measuring Internal Auditors Performance

Sorry Colin,
I suppose the root of what I'm trying to get to is the competence of the internal auditors, but more from a behaivoural and soft skills point of view.
So add to the list of items Colin mentioned those behavioral/soft skills to be evaluated. Have lead auditors and/or audit manager observe auditors occasionally, and/or have auditees rate auditors.
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#7
Re: Measuring Internal Auditors Performance

... most metrics suggested seem to have little - in actuality - to do with the auditor, more to do with the state of the system or corrective actions!
Which...by the way..are only effective measures if all of the people responsible for corrective actions are held to the same level of accountability. Nothing like being the only person with their feet held to the fire for closing NCs when the people actually responsible for the NC hold no motivation to prioritize NCs over their daily misery. That is a real losing proposition-especially for the auditor.
 

Raffy

Quite Involved in Discussions
#8
Re: Measuring Internal Auditors Performance

Hi ashley,
As a reference, you can use the IATF Auditor Guide...
Raffy :cool:
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#9
Re: Measuring Internal Auditors Performance

Guys,

Is the measuring the effectiveness of our Internal Auditors a requirement of ISO 9001:2008?

I (personally) believe its something we should be doing, but our current system and concentrates on effective closure of NC's they raise as apposed to their effectiveness.


Just wondering if anyone else had any thoughts or approaches they'd like to share?
NO for your first line. However monitoring of the internal audit process is.
While you monitor the internal auditing process, the internal auditor is also assessed and you have two choice.
1. Retrain some of them
OR
2. Train other potential internal auditors
If you set an objective to measure the effectiveness of internal auditors, it can be done, however my thought on this, is that this objective would not be directly aligned with your company policy, unless you are in the business of auditing and certification OR providing 3rd party internal auditing services.
 
D

Denis

#10
Re: Measuring Internal Auditors Performance

I think its difficult to actually measure an internal auditors performance, and could be quite subjective.

It implies that there are non conformities to be found and that the internal auditor would miss them - therefore they haven't actually found them all and are not quite competent.

My take on this would be to try an approach the issue from a different angle.

Within the team of auditors there will be individuals who probably know the issues that need to be raised within an audit area. If you team two auditors together , one who has the experience and the less experienced (in that particular area), then the audit can be conducted as a team.

The more experienced auditor can guide the other and provide feedback / comments in an informal manner to help the less experienced.

This would be done on a one to one basis, without any negative feeling in order to help the less experienced auditor. This would have a knock on effect over time to improve the general auditing standards.
 
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