Meeting the ISO 14001 Periodic Audits Requirement - Internal vs. External Auditing

A

albo193

#1
Internal vs External auditing

My company is trying to determine what to do for periodic audits. Would internal auditing be more beneficial than external? We are trying to get 30 (out of 650) employees to volunteer to be internal auditors. Of course they would all need training ($$$). Or should we just hire someone to come in periodically? Any advice on this subject would be great......Thanks
 
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Randy

Super Moderator
#2
1st of all..why would it cost $$$$ to train your auditors? Do it yourself and save the bucks.

As for internal vs external, only you can make that choice. Part of me says "Hire me or maybe one of the other folks here in the Cove that can provide you the service". The other part of me says "Do it yourself. Don't make it a TASK, but an experience to help instill a sense of ownership in the Syatem amongst the employee staff".

You're going to get alot of advice most likely on this issue, but remember, you and your needs are the deciding factor.
 

Cari Spears

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
#3
Randy said:
1st of all..why would it cost $$$$ to train your auditors? Do it yourself and save the bucks.
Exactly! The first job I had as a Mgt Rep I worked for a company that was seeking QS9000 registration. The owner paid approx. $800.00 for me to go to a three day auditing course offered by AIAG. (This was nearly a decade ago.) I then came back and trained the team.
 
M

Mike Smith

#4
Hi Albo,
I was just curious, if you are a automotive supplier, there are certain requirements for internal auditors and training for the new TS standards. If not, I agree with the other posts, send someone to training and let them train the rest of the auditors.
 
R

Randy Stewart

#5
I agree with Randy, IMO a system functions better when there is an ownership among the people who operate by it. It is their system. So I would suggest the Train the Trainer.
 
R

Randy Stewart

#6
I believe whole heartedly in the hands on approach. Plus, it is said that you never understand a subject better than if you have to teach it!
You can take your training and adapt it to your system, use very meaningful examples and hit home with the implications.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#7
albo193 said:
I work for a Plastics Manufacturing plant. I'll be a certified Lead Auditor (hopefully...if I pass the test) by the end of next week, so now you guys have me thinking...................hmm......should I do the training myself???
I don't want to bust your bubble, but no you won't. If you pass your exam and continuing student assessment (for which I have failed a student or 2 myself) you will receive a certificate of accomplishment which will allow you to start the certification process. Becoming a certified Lead Auditor involves a whole lot more that taking a course and passing a test. Trust me!
 

WALLACE

Quite Involved in Discussions
#8
Internal v External

Albo,
Train away. There's nothing stopping you from training your employees to audit according to your QMS requirements, that's the internal part.
IMO, it's best to keep it internaly sourced, the best motivation comes from internal training of any kind. Been there, seen it, done it.

My past experience offers this advice. Gather your potential audit guys together and ask them:

1:What is an audit?

2: Why do you want to audit?

3: Are you prepared to be a pro-active part of the audit training process?

Wallace.
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#9
albo193 said:
I stand corrected.....Thanks for pointing out my ignorance on this subject......Like I've said in other posts, I'm new to this field............Thank for all the advice!!!
If I had used the "I" word my fanny would be flammin'. You apparently know what it means...cool!


You're getting there, don't sweat it. The 1st step on any journey is by asking someone about the direction you need to go and taking the 1st step...and you're asking. You've already proven that you're sharper than many others perceive themselves to be.

As for the "if I pass" in your last post. Never doubt that you will be successful in anything. Approach everything in a positive manner and you will set aside the "what if I don't" or the "I don't know if I can" syndrom that is plaguing our society. Success and the visualization of success has become something of an elitest idea that for some stupid reason is frowned upon.

I use a similiar approach when I contact people that are charged with implementing their various management systems. They use the "if" word and "we're trying" phrase, and "we're not sure" and all that other krap in many of the courses I deliver. I tell each one of them (politely of course, but very direct) that the 1st thing they need to do when they get home is to put up a huge banner stating "WE ARE AN ISO ##### COMPANY" in BIG!!! letters, and in smaller letters "we just need to prove it".

Think positive and you'll be positive!! ;)

Anybody got a football team that needs a coach ?:vfunny:
 
E

energy

#10
I got lost

albo193 said:
My company is trying to determine what to do for periodic audits. Would internal auditing be more beneficial than external? We are trying to get 30 (out of 650) employees to volunteer to be internal auditors. Of course they would all need training ($$$). Or should we just hire someone to come in periodically? Any advice on this subject would be great......Thanks
Because this post is in the Environmental Threads section, I thought you were Auditing Environmental Policies. Realizing that this may be just a thread misplaced and my admitted ignorance of ISO 14001 (Never seen it), does that Standard have auditing requirements similar to ISO 9000? If not, sorry for the dumb question. If so, I would would want an External Auditor to scrutinize Environmental compliance. At least an Environmental Assessment completed by someone knowledgable and not employed by the company. People dumping barrels of seemingly harmless waste product into the ground with the full knowledge of the their Managers, are part of a culture that is very difficult for an employee to change. It may be hazardous to their health and safety. :confused: :smokin:
 
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