Meetings: Do meetings need to be documented?

L

LexieB

#1
I searched around the forums a bit and obviously big meetings like Management review need a formal agenda, minutes, corrective actions, etc.

However, what about weekly production meetings and such? At my work, the sales manager, production manager and shipping manager get together twice a week to do a quick rundown of "hot" items, problems, solutions, etc. I tried a few times to sit in and take notes but they go pretty fast and use a lot of code words for efficiency so it's hard to even understand them. I tried a couple of times to have them at least write down their own action items and give them to me to distribute, but not everyone turned them in so follow up was difficult.

Question: Does every meeting such as this need to be documented? If so, what is the best method?
 
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J

JaxQC

#2
I would agree with the Management review needing something because it is evidence "proof" that management has indeed reviewed specific items listed as needing review. I would use that same criteria for deciding for the others. Do you list out somewhere that review SHALL take place? If so then yes.

Realistically I've only had one where it was specifically called for which was Capability review for production runs which was tied to continuous improvement. Sometimes other methods can be used to show "meeting". Say that pFMEAs require cross functional work. If the pFMEA shows the team members on the form, it can be argued that is the evidence and output of the meeting. Not a separate sheet listing every thought of the group.

Hope that helps.
 
#3
I searched around the forums a bit and obviously big meetings like Management review need a formal agenda, minutes, corrective actions, etc.
Well, actually there is no requirement for management review to be a meeting. And the only requirement is to maintain records.

Question: Does every meeting such as this need to be documented? If so, what is the best method?
No meetings are required. Even design reviews can be accomplished without a meeting. However, I think we all can agree that meetings can be a very effective manner to accomplish our goals.

I think it is probably a good idea to document (record) meetings. Not so much as a requirement, but rather as a practical matter. By maintaining records of meetings, you can review the records when there are questions about who was delegated what. Records can also show customers that you take issues seriously and that things are moving in the right direction.

Bottom line: required? no. good idea? probably
 
B

B.Read - 2010

#4
Lexie,

I will agree with the responses you have received. If you evidence the meeting happened ( used as a corrective action, etc) then you need to document. Like they say, " if it's not documented...it didn't happen". Sounds like the weekly production meeting doesn't require minutes or recording. However if continuous improvement activities are discussed, you definately want to document those meetings.

Bryan
 
B

Bill Goss

#5
The meetings that need top be recorded are those that are required by your QMS to maintain records. Also, if you use meetings to provide evidence of fulfilling requirements, then those meetings should be recorded. These include meetings in which decisions are made that affect the QMS, like continual improvement, recommendations for improvements, non-conforming product and CAPA reviews (these would be recorded on the CAPA form in the CAPA system).
 
S

silentrunning

#6
From the way you describe the meetings, it almost sounds more like a strategy session. Like the others have said, if you’re not addressing something directly brought up in the International Standard it probably doesn’t require minutes. Having said that – I document the minutes of all our meetings. It is just a good insurance policy. It also keeps items that need to be addressed out in front of management.

Doug
 
J

JaneB

#7
I searched around the forums a bit and obviously big meetings like Management review need a formal agenda, minutes, corrective actions, etc.

However, what about weekly production meetings and such?
Leaving aside 9001, may I suggest step back a moment and think about what you're trying to achieve? The prime purpose of having some kind of records (not necessarily minutes!) is ... well, how do I say this without sounding tautological? So that there is an objective record of what was done, or what was said, or what was decided, to refer back to if needed. Because it's good practice - which is why the Standard requires it.

Management/strategy/planning meetings that don't generate any kind of record definitely bother me. But don't make too much of a rod for your own back - an agenda can just be a scribbled list on paper - it doesn't have to be formally typed up, etc.

Production/toolbox-type meetings I'm a bit mroe relaxed about, but why would you not want some kind of record? They're useful to show all kinds of things, from internal training and monitoring to CA, process improvement, etc etc. And usually they generate decisions or actions, eg, in future, we should do XY and Z. Now in some organisations this is remembered. Some. At times. But without any records at all, it's surprising how often it's 'forgotten' or overlooked or not properly followed up, or lags....

I've seen far too many organisations 'think' they were managing themselves well without having records... and believe me, they weren't. Memory varies - that's one reason why having records is a good idea.

At my work, the sales manager, production manager and shipping manager get together twice a week to do a quick rundown of "hot" items, problems, solutions, etc.
Sounds like good stuff to me...associated with controlling processes, corrective action and all that 'trivial stuff'? If there's no records at all... how do you demonstrate it's done? And if they don't even have a scribbled list of actions, how does the relevant manager make sure what was agreed gets done? Even if the manager just scribbles the action in their diary (say), that's good enough. Or there's a quick summary posted on the notice board. I'm sure they won't want to (much easier to stay all verbal)... but we're about improvement, remember?

I tried a couple of times to have them at least write down their own action items and give them to me to distribute, but not everyone turned them in so follow up was difficult.
You don't say. Is follow up (by relevant manager) done? How? And how can this be demonstrated to a third party? What kind of follow-up are we talking about? Trivial stuff (clean up the lunch room) or important stuff (eg, Joe to get the calibration records up to date)?

if you’re not addressing something directly brought up in the International Standard it probably doesn’t require minutes.
I think this takes too narrow a view, and limits thinking to 'just the minimum in the Standard'. But I'm reassured that you go on to say:
Having said that – I document the minutes of all our meetings. It is just a good insurance policy. It also keeps items that need to be addressed out in front of management.
Well, precisely.

No, not all meetings need minutes. But many if not most would benefit from it. And not all records a/need be minutes or b/need be exhaustive either. Many meetings could be recorded perfectly well with just an agenda (what was discussed) and a list of any actions (things to be done, by who and when by).
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#8
Leaving aside 9001, may I suggest step back a moment and think about what you're trying to achieve? The prime purpose of having some kind of records (not necessarily minutes!) is ... well, how do I say this without sounding tautological? So that there is an objective record of what was done, or what was said, or what was decided, to refer back to if needed. Because it's good practice - which is why the Standard requires it.

I've seen far too many organisations 'think' they were managing themselves well without having records... and believe me, they weren't. Memory varies - that's one reason why having records is a good idea.
I agree 100% (can you imagine that?) One of the best things that came out of implementing an omnibus database as a part of meeting an international quality standard was that you could collect meeting minutes, phone calls, and more. When you develop the discipline of putting this information into the database, and providing the correct links, you will find you no longer run the company via urban legends. You also found out that when someone says "That hasn't happened for two years" that evidence shows it really happened six months ago...and much, much more.

You do not need tomes, but you do need records. Yes, it makes good business sense, aside from the standard!
 
J

JaneB

#9
I agree 100% (can you imagine that?)
Thanks Bob! And yes, I can - it does happen on occasion! :lol:

... you no longer run the company via urban legends. You also found out that when someone says "That hasn't happened for two years" that evidence shows it really happened six months ago...and much, much more.
Yes, precisely. Memory is unreliable. Not keeping records of, for example, actions and decisions is usually a most effective way of not having things that were decided actually done, and not having effective follow-up and resolution of issues, and for people charged with tasks a/not to do them and b/to keep ducking or 'forgetting' or 'not getting around to it' and remaining unaccountable.

I've seen examples of the same thing you mention happen over and over and over again when people actually started to keep and use records. Then... guess what? They're starting to make Decisions based on fact (not memory/company legend etc)

You do not need tomes, but you do need records.
Exactly. I think sometimes people make the whole 'keeping records' thing far too hard, and it doesn't have to be that way. You can do it that way if you want, but something reasonable without turning into 'tomes' is better.

Yes, it makes good business sense, aside from the standard!
In my opinion, the Standard says 'have records' because it is good practice and it makes good sense (and isn't just some weird idea a bunch of loonies dreamed up in a fit of whatever).
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#10
You can do it that way if you want, but something reasonable without turning into 'tomes' is better.
Here is the secret to efficient record keeping: Bullet points.

Keeps the whole thing from becoming...well...novel.:tg:
 
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