Meetings: Do meetings need to be documented?

B

Bill Goss

#11
Be careful, however, in some cases keeping records that show management's knowledge of issues that in the future could cause harm to a person would end up being a huge liability, one of which a hot-shot attorney would love to get their hands on. A good records management program addresses all potential records, the retention time and place for each type, the responsible function for the dispoition of the records and more. Knowing when to dispose of records is just as vital as knowing the requirements for how long as a minimum to keep them. Bill Goss
 
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B

Bill Goss

#12
Be careful. A good records management program not only identifies all potential records for retention for a minimum amout of time, but it will also identify records that need to be disposed of or deleted at a certain point in time. Remember, a record that shows management's awareness of an isue that could cause harm would become a God-send to a hot-shot attorney representing a person hurt at your company. Record disposition decisions need to be at the forefront of your records management program. Bill Goss
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#13
What a great discussion. :applause:

The best points, in my view are:

1) Meetings don't have to be in-person room gatherings. If the point is to share and transfer information, it can be handled via computer, though personal interaction is often preferred - however:
a) Although people often complain of too many meetings, personal interaction is often favored and can be the best thing.
b) It can take ages to get an electronic signoff from some people.
c) As an internal auditor I have looked at electronic records and asked myself, "Did these guys even LOOK at the data before they signed off on this??" So, the electronic method requires discipline.

2) The point of keeping records is supposed to be to help the organization maintain a good memory of what is important to properly serve their customers. Standards mean to force the minimum, but the organization is free to go beyond to the extent the records are appropriate, useful and manageable.

3) Keeping an eye on liability is important, but my best professional advice is to not do anything you wouldn't want to see end up in court, via an examination of records or otherwise.
:2cents:
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#14
Knowing when to dispose of records is just as vital as knowing the requirements for how long as a minimum to keep them. Bill Goss
Evidence of hiding the information looks even worse to a jury (a copy in someone's desk, but missing from the company system).

Everybody loves a shredder, but...a better idea may actually be attempting to deal with the issues in good faith.

But, I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
 
B

Bill Goss

#15
Good point about "Did these guys even look at what they were signing..." When I audit, I will typically ask people why they approved certain documents or records. Often they answer "because I always gave" and that is not acceptable. There has to be some value-added reason why they approve these ... AFTER they review them. In other words, I want an answer like "I review and approve these based upon my specific knowledge and awareness of the part's design and use in the field. So my review is to ensure compatibility with the mating parts and the use of the overall device once assembled." Something like that is good. "Because I have always approved these" is inadequate. :rolleyes:
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#16
As an internal auditor I have looked at electronic records and asked myself, "Did these guys even LOOK at the data before they signed off on this??" So, the electronic method requires discipline.
Well, really, that is no different from paper copy. And, in some cases they do not need to, A signoff can be a person who needs notified, but really does not need to approve. Their signature simply implies that: yes, I was notified.

:topic:Now, if only congress would read what they are approving....oops...sorry.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#17
Well, really, that is no different from paper copy. And, in some cases they do not need to, A signoff can be a person who needs notified, but really does not need to approve. Their signature simply implies that: yes, I was notified.
That should be defined in the process document, of course. As an auditor I see differentiation from inform and approve all the time.

Both could imply responsibility: to be aware and not stop a bad thing when one has, by any defined means, organizational authority, can be bad. It's a reach, but when a quality manual says something like "Every member has the responsibility to stop a process that is is XYZ" implies reviewers could also be held obliquely, partially liable. This happens with safety managers, who can be held up to 15% liable in event of lawsuit or death from an accident - according to a professor of mine. That means the person in a position of responsibility can't hide behind the "Those guys said no" excuse.
:2cents:
 

BradM

Staff member
Admin
#18
I am probably old fashioned when it comes to meetings.

I feel that people have been gracious coming to my meeting; I want to respect them and their time.

1. The meeting should have an agenda- Previous issues, current issues, and future issues; possibly next meeting date.

2. Someone running the meeting who properly facilitates the meeting.

3. Leave the meeting with everyone clear on what was agreed upon, and what needs to be handled the next meeting.

If I conduct a meeting and there was not something worthy to document, did I waste everyone's time?:confused::D Now... that is just me, but I do try to stick by that. If my boss walked in and asked me why we have the xxyy meeting, I should be able to provide the evidence (which I can). It's simple-the agenda with notes underneath each main subject.

Soo.. I think meetings should be documented, just because it is a way to demonstrate what value is accumulated, by asking some group of key people to stop their job for 1-2 hours and go behind closed doors.:)
 

bobdoering

Stop X-bar/R Madness!!
Trusted Information Resource
#19
This happens with safety managers, who can be held up to 15% liable in event of lawsuit or death from an accident - according to a professor of mine. That means the person in a position of responsibility can't hide behind the "Those guys said no" excuse.
That is an interesting topic for another thread - liability. Some folks do not realize the actual legal liability of some responsibilities - especially oddball legal things like RoHS. When I smell that kind of responsibility, I ask the company if they are willing to provide insurance coverage for it. I would hate to see that personal financial liability - whether fines or damages - hit my checkbook.
 

Jen Kirley

Quality and Auditing Expert
Staff member
Admin
#20
When I smell that kind of responsibility, I ask the company if they are willing to provide insurance coverage for it. I would hate to see that personal financial liability - whether fines or damages - hit my checkbook.
When you actually have stature you can do this. At the time I could have asked the question, but my stature was quite low - a peon really. I was doing safety inspections, reporting their results and giving advice that was routinely ignored by the people with resources. My professor's advice was that sometimes it is best to leave when you just can't get the needed changes done.

You are right, this discussion on liability is off topic. We should concentrate on the subject of meetings and records of information sharing, whether done in person or not.
 
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