Merging of Quality Management of 3 Business Units

N

nidhir

#1
Hello,
I work for a company which manufactures and distributes consumer and industrial chemicals. I am responsible for the quality management system.
We form part of a group which has several other companies which deals in the chemical business.
In line with a clustering of these businesses under one hat, I have been asked to look after the QMS the 3 companies and to provide a plan.
Now each company has undergone ISO 9001:2008 certification. Two of the businesses do not have a dedicated quality team. Its more like the production manager looking a bit after quality.
Each of the company has its own quality policy and so on.
So I would like some guidance on how I could go about this.
I already have a meeting scheduled with each of the company MRs to understand their processes and so on.

Please help.
thx
 
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somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
Simple. Decide which is your central location or the Lead site. Define its activities of the ISO 9001 QMS. These will be the central functions, and the lead site will deploy them across all other locations. Now the other companies are remote sites. Define its activities of the ISO 9001. These will be common functions documented, implemented and maintained at these sites. Now decide how the interactions and communications between the lead site and remote sites are established.
I have a draft GHTF guideline about multisite auditing for medical device manufacturers, however it can give good inputs to your proposed multisite QMS. Hope it is helpful. Find same attached.... Good Luck.
 

Attachments

#3
As it happens, I have similar issues at hand. Our comparatively small site is part of a large group where all the sites have built their own systems. We are now set to integrate them (which is part of the reason for my current abysmally low post count :notme: ). Anyway, as somashekar says this should not be too tricky (though it does create a lot of work). In our case the top documents will be owned by corporate management.

This is also an opportunity for improvement: Comparing different systems is bound to reveal good and not so good points in all of them. It is quite possible that you have solved similar issues differently, and now would be a good time to look for and spread best practice.

/Claes
 

harry

Super Moderator
#4
Good advices given so far but from the management aspect, I think you need to look at the 'soft' side of things. What kind of culture exists in each of the 3 sites, how mature are their existing systems? I mean - don't force a marriage, they ought to be ready for it in order for the marriage to work better and last longer.
 
N

nidhir

#5
Guys,
Thanks so much for great feedback.
2 of the sites have recently been certified with Certifying body X while the other site has been certified 2 years ago with CB Y.
Should all the sites be certified by one same CB?
rgds
 

Ajit Basrur

Staff member
Admin
#6
Guys,
Thanks so much for great feedback.
2 of the sites have recently been certified with Certifying body X while the other site has been certified 2 years ago with CB Y.
Should all the sites be certified by one same CB?
rgds
Absolutely, that will make your co-ordination easy. In my organization, I did the same and trust me, it reduces pain and headache :)
 
#7
In my organization, I did the same and trust me, it reduces pain and headache :)
I couldn't agree more. Different CB's would not be a good idea: There would inevitably be slightly different interpretations and outlooks, and you would find yourself in the middle. Ajit's advice is very sound.

/Claes
 
Last edited:

suildur

Involved In Discussions
#8
Hello,
I work for a company which manufactures and distributes consumer and industrial chemicals. I am responsible for the quality management system.
We form part of a group which has several other companies which deals in the chemical business.
In line with a clustering of these businesses under one hat, I have been asked to look after the QMS the 3 companies and to provide a plan.
Now each company has undergone ISO 9001:2008 certification. Two of the businesses do not have a dedicated quality team. Its more like the production manager looking a bit after quality.
Each of the company has its own quality policy and so on.
So I would like some guidance on how I could go about this.
I already have a meeting scheduled with each of the company MRs to understand their processes and so on.

Please help.
thx
As far as I can understand, there are "different" companies under a group, but the top management of the group wants those to be merged or gathered for quality. Then, I would recommend something different.

As there are three different companies and a headquarters for the group, you will implement 4 different management systems anyway. Whether merged or not, first of all, define the processes of the management system of each company/site. Then, decide to merge them or not. Also, keep in mind that, if the legal status of that three company is different, there may be problems in the clauses ISO 9001. I think, you would consult to the certification body, so ask them if they would accept what you think. Because, the certificate is issued to one legal body. (I m a consultant, and, I just had a similiar case last December. I implemented 3 different QMs, but the procedures were the same. However, the scopes of the companies were identical to each other, in my case. Also, the CB(s) may require different QM for each company, as the legal entities are different at all.)

Anyway, after defining the processes for the three sites and the head quarters, just go on with the usual documentation work. You can consider the HQ of the group as the management department and the other three site as sub-departments in a merged system, or, you can consider the HQ as the main company and the other three as suppliers in the non-merged version. In any case, you would clearly identify the needs of the HQ, and define the processes/inputs/outputs of HQ based on those. Because, (I think :D) the HQ/top management will like/see the QMS as a tool for their management activities on the three company, before anything.

And, to make your work easy, I recommend you to act as the quality coordinator, not the QMR of the whole three companies. Authoritize QMR for each company and one for the HQ, and prefer that QMR would be someone different from the top manager of that site (maybe, a sub-manager), then, each QMR would built and implement own QMS and you would coordinate the all work.

Finally, one body would be good for certification of all. However, every audit is also a training. If you have enough resources (especially time and patience :D ), having audited using different bodies at least for the first two years would help you improve your complex quality system. Yes, you will sometimes find yourself in the middle like the other quality professionals told in previous posts, but every risk comes with its own opportunity ;)
 
Last edited:
N

nidhir

#9
Thank you for this insight.
You are right, the 3 companies have different legal entities.
We will be transfering some manufacturing processes to X, Y or Z so as to have better synergy among the companies.
Handling organisational change will be a major challenge.
Each company has their own policy, Would it be advisable to have a common policy for the 3 companies.
Acting as the Coordinator sounds very practical.
I will definety come back for more feedback/advise.
The cove rocks!
 

suildur

Involved In Discussions
#10
Thank you for this insight.
You are right, the 3 companies have different legal entities.
We will be transfering some manufacturing processes to X, Y or Z so as to have better synergy among the companies.
Handling organisational change will be a major challenge.
Each company has their own policy, Would it be advisable to have a common policy for the 3 companies.
Acting as the Coordinator sounds very practical.
I will definety come back for more feedback/advise.
The cove rocks!
In that case, I would have prefered a non-merged system if I were you. Because, implementing a system has lots of hard paths to walk, and in this case, there are 3 different companies, different manufacturing processes, different managers, different quality cultures and approaches, a separate managing level... The worst thing I always encounter is the human factor; you must achieve the leadership of the top management and the involvement of the people at the same time. When you achieve that, anything comes easy.

In fact, that was the only thing in my mind when I replied in previous post.

Most of the time, people react reverse(?) when you try to implement something new. There are several causes for that but the main causes are:

1. A new system means change: change in the positions, change in the work done, change in the responsibilities... "People fed by the existing system doesnot let the system change." I always take this into account.

2. Human is a rebellious creature. You must let people to feel that the system belongs to them. In other case, you must convince or achieve people that you are doing the right thing and the only thing to be obeyed is what you do or say.

3. On the other hand, people are really easy going. If you convict others that you are the only one to be listened or obeyed to, then they willnot even move their finger without you saying them to do.

So... It is a very thin line to implement and sustain a "working" quality system. That's why I say to implement separate systems within each site and HQ with 4 QMRs and a QMS coordinator. Yes, there are identical documents, processes, but different people will apply those!

If you want to discuss more, send me a message with your questions/problems, I will be returning a reply soon.
 
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