Missing Information in Training Records - Is it a Major Nonconformance?

[KWalls - 2008]

Just wanted to report in real quick... the "official" results are not in yet, but unofficially we only recieved 1 major - for missing some info in the training records of our employees. And the good new is, we get to fix it before he comes back in a few weeks!! Other than that, our non-robot auditor is very pleased with our system. And I have to say, I did ask questions which he answered in a general manner or broadly speaking. Nice to know that I don't have to be afraid to ask questions. And after all the worrying I did about internal auditing (or my lack of knowledge of internal auditing) turned out to be complete OVERKILL because I audited EVERYTHING under the sun here. He said that it was almost "too thorough". Guess that's a good thing? THANK YOU to all of you who have helped me through this process. I seriously couldn't have done it without YOU or the Cove.

 

[Doug Tropf]

Re: Tips and Ideas for Working with Auditors

Nice job Kyle, I imagine most of us get a case of the nerves prior to major audits. Hope the audit results lead to a raise for you.

 

[Paul Simpson]

What was the verdict?

Just wanted to report in real quick... the "official" results are not in yet, but unofficially we only recieved 1 major - for missing some info in the training records of our employees. And the good new is, we get to fix it before he comes back in a few weeks!!

Sorry, I am sure it is just general stupidity on my part but I thought you posted:

1. The auditor raised a major because a few training records weren't complete - doesn't sound like a major to me! Perhaps there is something else you can post here so we can give our cove "verdict"
2. You get another visit to clear the "Major." I presume you are paying extra for this?

 

[CliffK]

Re: Tips and ideas for working with auditors

Just wanted to report in real quick... the "official" results are not in yet, but unofficially we only recieved 1 major - for missing some info in the training records of our employees. And the good new is, we get to fix it before he comes back in a few weeks!! Other than that, our non-robot auditor is very pleased with our system.

Congratulations. Glad you had a good experience.

Getting a major for missing information in training records seems a bit much. Can you provide more information (maybe start a new thread) about the finding?

There's nothing wrong with suggesting that the auditor or CB reconsider the severity of a finding. I think your fellow Covers might be able to give you some advice, if you are interested.

 

[Stijloor]

Re: Tips and ideas for working with auditors

Just wanted to report in real quick... the "official" results are not in yet, but unofficially we only recieved 1 major - for missing some info in the training records of our employees. And the good new is, we get to fix it before he comes back in a few weeks!! Other than that, our non-robot auditor is very pleased with our system. And I have to say, I did ask questions which he answered in a general manner or broadly speaking. Nice to know that I don't have to be afraid to ask questions. And after all the worrying I did about internal auditing (or my lack of knowledge of internal auditing) turned out to be complete OVERKILL because I audited EVERYTHING under the sun here. He said that it was almost "too thorough". Guess that's a good thing? THANK YOU to all of you who have helped me through this process. I seriously couldn't have done it without YOU or the Cove.

KWalls,

For a nonconformity to be major, it has to be a failure of (in this case) the training process. Are you sure it is a major? Was this issue discussed during the closing meeting? Just curious. Some information missing in training records would be a minor, if at all....

Stijloor.

 

[BradM]

Re: Missing information in a training record-Is it a Major?

All, this thread has been moved from the tips/ideas for auditors. I think it is a very worthwhile discussion for the OP (and all of us). I hope no one objects.

 

[KWalls - 2008]

Re: Missing information in a training record-Is it a Major?

Just to clarify for you guys... yesterday was Readiness Review for us. So it wasn't the "real deal" but gave us a good idea at where we stood. But here is the reason behind the "finding"... He said that the training grandfathering statement had to show which departments they were grandfathered in for... ex: Our shop foreman would be grandfathered in for Manufacturing and Quality Control. Whereas right now is just states on their record that they are free from any type of training because they have helped create the system. Does that make sense?

Other than that he said there is no reason we shouldn't pass our certification audit on the 4th and 5th of February (1 & 1/2 days) and that he's been to a lot of small businesses to audit/register them and we are the most ready he's ever seen.

 

[michellemmm]

Re: What was the verdict?

Sorry, I am sure it is just general stupidity on my part but I thought you posted:

1. The auditor raised a major because a few training records weren't complete - doesn't sound like a major to me! Perhaps there is something else you can post here so we can give our cove "verdict"
2. You get another visit to clear the "Major." I presume you are paying extra for this?

I had the same reaction when I read her post... Not Fair!!!

I guess it all depends on the auditor...Is s/he going to audit the letter of quality or the spirit of quality...If an auditor wants to find fault or nonconformity, s/he can!!! No system is perfect...

S/he starts with a minor and follows the process through (audit trail) and shows the breakdown in the system from management commitment to customer satisfaction and build a case....

During my last audit, my client manager asked one of my SMT operator (new hire):
What problems do you have with the machine?
What have you done to improve the equipment?
Have you worked with better equipment?
Have you proposed getting better equipment?
etc...

My heart stopped....I could not breathe...
My client manager could have given several majors...But...He was not on a fault finding mission....He was looking for effective implementation.

 

[Jim Wynne]

Re: What was the verdict?

There are two ways to look at this. The first way is to say, whatever it's called in this situation--major or minor--it'll get fixed and people will move on with their lives. On the other hand, it's important to establish the ground rules early on and make sure that the auditor understands what it takes to characterize a given finding as "major." Unless there's evidence of a systemic failure--a required process either doesn't exist or is demonstrably ineffective--there is no major nonconformance, and it shouldn't be accepted as such.

 

[AndyN]

Re: Missing Information in a Training Record - Is it a Major Nonconformance Finding?

He said that it was almost "too thorough".

Kyle:

Good job on being prepared! But this kind of comment from a CB auditor is really too much. Not his call............

And, there's no way what you described is a major! I'm not an advocate of Grandfathering anyone into a job, don't care how long they've been doing it. As a manager I want to know they're competent, and grey hair doesn't do that for anyone...........
That said, his idea of what is required is off.