Mistake Proofing on Control Plan

S

SteelWoman

#1
We had our last QS audit this week prior to shifting to TS. During lunch one day our auditor pointed out the Appendix in TS manual that lists all the things that have to be part of a Control Plan - she particularly pointed out the Corrective Action and Mistake Proofing lines.

I understand well enough how to show/link Corrective Action on a Control Plan, but am not sure I understand how to add Mistake Proofing to a control plan? Most of our "mistake proofing" is electronic/technology-based - ie, if you enter a specification outside of customer tolerance you get a flag about it.

Any help?
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Tom W

Living the Dream...
#2
We recently had our TS2 audit, and this very topic came up. The auditor wanted us to show him mistake proofing on the control plans. Through a very length discussion it was determined that this is a hard topic to think of in terms of "putting it on the control plan".

The auditor was looking for mistake proofing in terms of removing human intervention and improving the processes capability, elimination of potential nonconformances. Again this can include such a wide range of projects and topics that it was a struggle for the auditor to even determine compliance.

He wrote an OFI for this and then stated that with all of our technology advances and electronic controls that we have put in place that our mistake proofing is almost non-existant at this point. Although we continually look to improve the processes, we can only go so far and still be cost effective in the service we provide. This is one we have struggled with and probably will for a while. :)
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#3
The mistake proofing methods can be placed in the column for control method.

SteelWoman
if you enter a specification outside of customer tolerance you get a flag about it.
Spec tolerance - XXXX
Evaluation/ measurement technique - electronic sensor
Sample Size: 100%
Frequency- continuous​
Control Method - Line stops/ flag/ automatically ejected etc​

I think this does it
 

Bigfoot

Involved - Posts
#4
Howard Atkins said:
The mistake proofing methods can be placed in the column for control method.


Spec tolerance - XXXX
Evaluation/ measurement technique - electronic sensor
Sample Size: 100%
Frequency- continuous​
Control Method - Line stops/ flag/ automatically ejected etc​

I think this does it
I think Howard is on the right track, excellent suggestion!!

IMHO: One thing I would add is to take the noted controls and tie them to the PFMEA showing that you have completed a review (via the CA/PA) and integrated it into the system to lower the Customer risk through the improved detection / lowered occurrance. If it doesn't require Human intervention it would show in the "Controls to Prevent" column of the PFMEA and likely be documented through a Process change notice or Eng Change of some kind.

A question for all of the Cove Rats out there: Do you use a regular system of review on your PFMEA and if you do are the changes, if any, resulting from it documented through your change control system? Just wondering?
 

howste

Thaumaturge
Super Moderator
#5
Yup, I think Howard is right on target here.

One more thing to consider. If a mistake-proofing device isn't working properly, it's probably worse than not having one at all because you are counting on it being there. I also add verification checks of mistake-proofing devices to the control plan.

Examples:

For a sensor that detects proper orientation of a part, you might run a part in the wrong position once a day just to make sure it detects it.

For a device that checks size limits, you could have a couple of samples - one at the limit (painted yellow) and one outside the limit (painted red) - that you run periodically to make sure the device is making good judgement calls at the limit.
 

Howard Atkins

Forum Administrator
Staff member
Admin
#6
howste is absoultly correct here
All devices must be checked on a reqular basis, it could be part of the set up procedure to ensure that it works otherwise it gives you a false level of confidence. nothing worse than people saying but the machune approved it with out any base for this "objective evidence"
 

bpritts

Involved - Posts
#7
One of my client's customers (American Axle, GM's spun off axle operations)
mandates exactly the controls that howste and Howard suggest. They
refer to the process as a "rabbit", although I have never had an explanation
of the origin of the term.

Not only can these controls eventually fail (which I have seen) but a colleague
of mine found a situation where well-meaning but ignorant plant personnel
have disabled these checks when they slowed down production !(VUR(*%&!)
Seems that they were rejecting too many parts!

Getting back to the main point of the post, I would think that the CP is an
appropriate place for those error-proofs that measure, test, or otherwise
check something. But I think that the very best error proofs -- for example,
designs that can only be built the "right way" probablywould not belong
on a control plan. They should be recorded on an FMEA, tho.

Brad
 

Satellite

Involved In Discussions
#8
bpritts said:
They
refer to the process as a "rabbit", although I have never had an explanation
of the origin of the term.
For you trivia hounds (pun intended)...I believe the term came from dog trials (hunting tests). Where the dog (your machine) is tested to point out or flush (detect) the rabbit or bird (test block). :bigwave:
 
B

ben sortin

#9
A design review audit called out on the prototype control plan can verify and validate the identification and implemention of mistake proofing in the form of design features and practices. I have seen mature products with too many sensors at the process level that have high producer risks.

"Plan on checking them all unless of course you plan for not checking any."
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
optomist1 Error Mistake Proofing Color Parts Inspection, Prints (Drawings), Testing, Sampling and Related Topics 6
O Creating a Tool to Track & Verify Mistake Proofing Devices Document Control Systems, Procedures, Forms and Templates 5
B PFMEA Line Items for Poka-Yoke (Mistake Proofing) and Scans FMEA and Control Plans 2
L Method for Poka-Yoke (Mistake Proofing) Validation prior to SOP APQP and PPAP 6
G Is Mistake Proofing (aka Poka Yoke) a Process Change? APQP and PPAP 12
S Mistake Proofing (Poka Yoke) in Offices and Services Service Industry Specific Topics 12
Wes Bucey Mistake Proofing in Health Care World News 7
sathis Definition Error Proofing vs. Mistake Proofing - Differences? Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 11
Wes Bucey Oops! Opportunity for mistake proofing? Worker flicks wrong switch World News 14
D Definition Error-Proofing vs. Mistake-Proofing - Differences Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 5
S Mistake Proofing and Root cause analysis - Does anyone have any training materials? Problem Solving, Root Cause Fault and Failure Analysis 7
T Mistake proofing & problem solving methods QS-9000 - American Automotive Manufacturers Standard 20
Marc Mistake-Proofing, ZQC, & Failsafing - John Grout's Poka-Yoke Page Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 0
S Mistake Proofing: human paperwork errors Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 8
S Mistake Proofing and Poka Yoke - Looking for information Quality Tools, Improvement and Analysis 2
B How to reply NCR on ineffectiveness of corrective action during IATF external audit? This is repeated issue whereby some mistake was done. IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
M Interview question - IMS (Integrated Management Systems) a necessity or an ISO mistake? ISO 14001:2015 Specific Discussions 10
Sidney Vianna Informational UTC ASQR Rev.11 has a mistake; certification of distributors to IATF 16949 AS9100, IAQG, NADCAP and Aerospace related Standards and Requirements 0
W Suggest a Poka Yoke (Mistake Proof) Method for my Product Manufacturing and Related Processes 24
S Gage R&R Study has Revealed No "Part to Part Variation" - My mistake? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 6
S Cpk Help needed - Explain to me where I made a mistake Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 8
R Quality Manual missing information - Root cause for a documentation mistake Problem Solving, Root Cause Fault and Failure Analysis 15
C List operator mistake as the potential cause of failure in FMEA FMEA and Control Plans 20
Marc Company Makes Hiring Mistake, Sues Employee To Get Money Back Career and Occupation Discussions 11
C Certification Release - Certification goes out to a customer and there is a mistake General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
R Error Proofing Label process Manufacturing and Related Processes 4
Jimmy123 What is the difference between Error Proofing and Controls? ISO/IATF 16949 - Control Plans FMEA and Control Plans 16
D Error proofing ideas sheet metal punches Manufacturing and Related Processes 8
K Documented problem solving and documented error-proofing - IATF 16949 10.2.3 & 10.2.4 Internal Auditing 7
P IATF 16949 Clause 10.2.4 - Error Proofing IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 25
M Are 'Error Proofing Methods' required to be mentioned in Control Plans? FMEA and Control Plans 7
C List Error Proofing in the Process FMEA or the Control Plan FMEA and Control Plans 2
T Error Proofing / Poka-Yoke Textbook by Productivity Inc Book, Video, Blog and Web Site Reviews and Recommendations 7
S Manufacturing Error-proofing Packers mixing up which 4 Mats go together in a Kit Manufacturing and Related Processes 3
M Machine Feature: Is it possible to consider it Error Proofing? FMEA and Control Plans 6
D Error Proofing Workstation FOD (Foreign Objects and Debris) Problem Solving, Root Cause Fault and Failure Analysis 7
E Error Proofing to prevent Length Short - CNC Turning Process Manufacturing and Related Processes 4
M Error Proofing Packing Process Problem Solving, Root Cause Fault and Failure Analysis 11
AnaMariaVR2 Healthcare Focused Error Proofing Hospitals, Clinics & other Health Care Providers 3
M Label Error Proofing - Mislabeled parts in a small automotive company Manufacturing and Related Processes 8
quality1 Question regarding O-ring application for water proofing a device Design and Development of Products and Processes 2
C Need help error proofing valve. All ideas welcome. Human Factors and Ergonomics in Engineering 31
Q Error Proofing Verification - Layered Audit Question Process Audits and Layered Process Audits 17
C Are Error Proofing Statistics Correct Nonconformance and Corrective Action 20
N Error-proofing tools/methods to suggest? TS16949 Clause 8.5.2.2 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
C What is Error-Proofing Methods? TS 16949 Clause 7.3.2.2 IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
M Metal forming - Brake presses - Need error-proofing advice Manufacturing and Related Processes 8
B Definition Error Proofing vs. Programmable Logic Controls (PLCs) Definitions, Acronyms, Abbreviations and Interpretations Listed Alphabetically 1
L Seeking examples - Error-Proofing Methodology - Used with regard to corrective action IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
Marc Error Proofing - Brief Powerpoint .ppt files General Information Resources 0

Similar threads

Top Bottom