Mistake proofing & problem solving methods


tim banic

Hello folks, 1st time posting. I'm looking for information and suggestions on problem solving methods & Mistake proofing. This is my 1st attempt at QS, done ISO twice, and I need a little help, please.

"If it moves train it. If it doesn't move calibrate it. If it isn't written down...it never happened!"

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tim banic

thanks Marc. I'll start searching. I'm just in the process of writing the Procedure manual, so I am trying to make sure I know what I am talking about when I write the procedure. What I was really looking for was examples of what would cover these requirements.


Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
Beware what you put in a procedure. What techniques do you currently use?

tim banic

that's part of the problem, we don't really have anything in place at the moment. So any suggestions would be helpful

"If it moves train it...if it doesn't move calibrate it...if it isn't written down it never happened!"



Hunkered Down for the Duration
Staff member
You might want to look through the pdf files directory and check out the 8-D and APQP files. You have the typical tools - fishbone, etc. I think there is also a brief poke-yoke file there too for some ideas.

I did forum searches on "poke yoke" and "poke-yoke" and "problem solving" and came up with lots of matches (search all forums). I do recommend that you read http://Elsmar.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000026.html

If you have more specific questions, come back to this thread (or ask in any of the threads the search leads you too) and we'll answer them.

Poke-yoke and problem solving are pretty broad spectrums to cover. Do you have a specific type of problem you are trying to solve?


Tim, how do you currently solve your problems? Because maybe it's possible to easily update your current problemsolving to an problemsolving method! Don't you use a method like brainstorming? Because brainstorming is also a problem solving method.

You should use others. For example, we use brainstorming, an own developed 7-step method, the fishbone-diagram and sometimes with very complex problems we use the 8D problemsolving method.


Kevin Mader

One of THE Original Covers!
Staff member
Originally posted by Marc Smith:
Beware what you put in a procedure. What techniques do you currently use?
Darned keyboard! Hit a button inadvertently, so here I am as someone else I suppose.

Good advice. In my experience, people read the QS9000 manual and begin adding all the suggested methods to their own procedures. Typically later, organizations find the two or three techniques they like, use them exclusively and forget the rest. The Quality Program becomes muddled or inaccurate.

I would suggest determining those tools which you currently use, add those to your procedures if they are missing. Don't get over zealous if you can help it.



Edited for html format.

[This message has been edited by Marc Smith (edited 24 June 2000).]

Tom Goetzinger

I think that the biggest mistake companies make in implementing a quality system is not to ask the question "DOES THIS MAKE GOOD SENSE FOR OUR BUSINESS?" before adding any process, procedure, or work instruction to their business. Some companies make their quality systems a burden to maintain. That should not be. A good quality system helps the company continually improve their business processes.

Martijn TVM

You got that right, The key is to audit the company and build your procedures based on that. after that make it QS compliant. most companies allready have a lot of systems in place to ensure quality which are also compliant to QS

If you take it the other way around, it means that you will find yourself changing a lot in the daily processes giving you much resistance, from the people whom are to use it.

So this is the flow I use:

Step1: Describe company procedures
Step2: Compair it with QS standards
Step3: Alter procedures
Step4: Implement differences
Step5: Audit to verify implementation.

If some one disagrees or has a different oppinion please share........

Laura M

That's almost exactly the approach I take. The only time it creates a bit of a difficulty is if 2 departments do things differently (both compliant), and in the process of implement a Quality System, you also want to become consistant. Then someone has to change and things get a bit more complicated.
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