Misuse of the ISO name!

[Jim Wynne]

Re: Light a candle instead of cursing the darkness

Look, I agree with some of what you say, but I do disagree strongly with your position, which appears to be that principles and ideals are all very well - except when they're going to cost.

I don't see much point in belaboring this, but I will point out that when we face an ethical crossroads, sometimes the choice to be made involves sacrifice of our own ideals in recognition of personal responsibility (that being responsibility to something or someone other than ourselves) and perhaps a greater good.

 

[Marc]

Re: Light a candle instead of cursing the darkness

And what's worse it's been propagated to numerous distributors and resellers websites, verbatim

<Company name> is an internationally recognized <organization> holding accreditations from ISO 9001 and ISO 2000.

Despite registrars reviewing the wording during audits wherever the company is using its ISO registration for marketing purposes, this type of misuse is too common, perhaps it should be reinforced in the standard itself.

What is wrong with the web posting?

Should it say...

<Company name> is an internationally recognized <organization> holding a registration for ISO 9001:2000.

I replaced accreditation with registration, replaced from with for, and changed the standard to say 9001:2000....

Did this thread start with a question about the misuse of the ISO name?

Why did it develop into a philosophical sparring match?

Am I missing something?

Yeah. Took a few turns, didn't it.

Bottom line is, as Dirk pointed out, verbiage. Should read something like:

<Company name> is an internationally recognized <organization> holding accreditations registered from to ISO 9001 and ISO 2000.

If anything, I wonder why Le Chiffre left out the company and organization names. If it's on the internet, I can't see why posting the company and organization here is problematic. I probably would have posted a link...

Bottom line is sometimes discussion threads here takes unexpected twists and turns. That's part of what makes up a discussion forum. As long as everyone keeps responses civil, we can live with it.

 

[Le Chiffre]

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish ...

Wow, that was quite the storm!

I feel some clarity is required...

In the case of the original post, Le Chiffre seems to be taking the tack the company is DELIBERATELY misusing the ISO logo, etc. to state such registration [misstated as "accreditation] confers special "recognition" of the worth and value of the organization. My clues in Le Chiffre's post to Le Chiffre's anger and desire to punish such apparent chicanery was the phrase

My interpretation of humiliation and/or ridicule was engendered by Le Chiffre's use of the "didn't think" smiley which I interpret as holding a person up to ridicule for "not thinking."

Wes, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear, I raised this as a typical example of ignorance with regards to ISO - not deliberate. And the use of the hammer to the head was to emphasize "banging one's own head" - my head, as we as quality professionals have failed to educate the industry (perhaps this one would have been better ). That's why I suggested that guidelines for usage of the ISO name should be included in the standard.

I certainly wasn't out to ridicule or punish, that's why I didn't add a link or identify the company. It was to highlight a systemic problem that we "as quality professionals" aren't doing enough to correct. Notifying each organization of their mistake is not addressing the root cause. I'm frustrated with the common belief that anything "ISO related" relates only to final product quality, when we all know it's so much more. How can we do a better job of promoting the real definition?

 

[SteelMaiden]

I see a lot worse in poorly translated documents - I can only imagine the hilarity that reigns when English is translated into another language [look up the Chevy Nova flap when Nova is considered as a Spanish word.]

Sorry, Wes, Nova (meaning doesn't go) is not considered as "a" Spanish word. No va (doesn't go) is two words and what you have quoted is a false urban legend.
Sorry, I don't usually do the urban legend thing, but beings as how this was a serious subject and quoted as a truth within the business community and not just a joke...

 

[Sidney Vianna]

Re: Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish ...

That's why I suggested that guidelines for usage of the ISO name should be included in the standard.

Publicizing certification to ISO 9001 should never be a part of the standard because it would mislead people to believe that you should be certified, once you decide to use ISO 9001.
ISO has websites and publications (http://www.iso.org/iso/en/iso9000-14000/certification/publicizing/index.html) that helps organizations in publicizing their "certification". Any CB worth their salt would assist an organization in making sure that their press releases are correct.

I believe that, while some press releases are poorly worded due to ignorance, most are "deliberately ignorant" and want just to inflate the "accomplishments". For many marketing folks, accuracy and truth is not that important. Promoting the brand, at any cost, is.

 

[fireonce]

Re: Light a candle instead of cursing the darkness

It's funny but disappointing.

 

[JaneB]

Re: Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish ...

I agree that

Publicizing certification to ISO 9001 should never be a part of the standard

although I have somewhat different reasons. I think it's a quite futile and pointless exercise to attempt to use a standard (or legislation/regulation or whatever) to deal with issues like ignorance, wilful or otherwise. In fact, I can just imagine the furore such an attempt might cause, were they to go that route. I believe ISO has a far more important role to play than that particular one.

Any CB worth their salt would assist an organization in making sure that their press releases are correct.

Indeed yes. And all the ones I respect do. It is one of the responsibilities of the certifier - it's their name on the certificate, they awarded the certificate, and it has been part of every application that I've seen for the applicant to agree to the proper usage of the certification.

The devil's advocate in me says that, while the wording may not be accurate, at least it keeps the name in the public eye as a 'good thing'

 

[Wes Bucey]

Just an idle thought - do any of the CB organizations bother to spot check advertising by registrants during the annual reviews? My thought is that the misleading wording is as much detrimental to the reputation of the registrar as the registrant.

Of course, the other side of the coin is that 99.999% of the folks who view the misleading advertising have no clue it is misleading, since they are not quality professionals who are intimately familiar with the Standard and the limitations restricted to a system versus the products or service of the registrant.

 

[somerqc]

Wes,

I think you hit the nail on the head. We have just attained registration to ISO 9001. Ever since we received the paperwork, most of my time has been explaining to IT (website admin) and sales what they can and can't say and how they can advertise.

I went to the point of giving all of these groups the "How to market your registration" handbook that our CB gave us with the paperwork. It details exactly how we can market this. Thankfully, this has allowed me to get back to work.

Unfortunately, industry relies on the systems within the ISO industry and the associated professionals (such as us) to ensure that the ISO name is used properly.

Depending the person responsible, they may not understand the nuances of an expression in English (I deal with almost every different language here). It can be difficult to explain to someone that doesn't have English as a first language some of these nuances. If nobody it there willing to check, you end up with some of the misuses you see. Having said this, it is rarely if ever purposeful. 99.999% of people will correct it without any issue IF pointed out to them. I know my CB has it as part of their initial check before every audit.

 

[CalRich]

Re: Light a candle instead of cursing the darkness

If anything, I wonder why Le Chiffre left out the company and organization names. If it's on the internet, I can't see why posting the company and organization here is problematic. I probably would have posted a link...

You're X-actly Rite!