Monitoring and Measurement of Processes

P

primamgt

#1
Dear guys !

I need help in clarifying clause 8.2.3 as follows;

1) Which QMS processes must be "monitored" according to clause 8.2.3?

2) What are minimum QMS processes which need to be "measured" according to clause 8.2.3?

3) If the product conforms to requirements but the relevant process(s) cannot achieve the planned result, shall correction and corrective action be taken according to clause 8.2.3?

Thanks all in advance
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
Hello primamgt, and welcome to the Cove,

You'll have to look at clause 4.1:

The organization shall

a) identify the processes needed for the quality management system and their application throughout the
organization (see 1.2),

d) ensure the availability of resources and information necessary to support the operation and monitoring of these
processes,

e) monitor, measure and analyse these processes, and

f) implement actions necessary to achieve planned results and continual improvement of these processes.


So:

1 & 2: You'll have to decide which processes are needed, monitor them, and measure them where applicable. It's mostly up to yourself to decide what's what...

3: Yes

/Claes
 
I

ivan99

#3
Here is basically what I wrote in my Manual:
Most of the processes described in 4.2.2c are monitored...I indicated that actions are taken via CA or PAs...
Clause 8.4 should also guide you with the list of the key processes that you are required to monitor and measure...customer satisfaction is one and suppliers is another...
Hope this helps.
 
S

sneekparty

#4
Problem with Clause 4.1 (d)..

Claes and others,

I have a question concerning clause 4.1 (d) in which is stated:

Ensure the availability of resources and information necessary to support the operation and monitoring of these processes.

I have trouble with something our auditor said... she said that we have to indentify the resources needed to support the process...but I don't now why....what's the use of indentifying? If you don't have the resources you can't make the process work so why indentify them...

Any pointers about the usefullness of indentifying resources is well appreciated...

Thanks in advance,
Grtz,
Martin
 
#5
Re: Problem with Clause 4.1 (d)..

sneekparty said:

Claes and others,

I have a question concerning clause 4.1 (d) in which is stated:

Ensure the availability of resources and information necessary to support the operation and monitoring of these processes.

I have trouble with something our auditor said... she said that we have to indentify the resources needed to support the process...but I don't now why....what's the use of indentifying? If you don't have the resources you can't make the process work so why indentify them...

Any pointers about the usefullness of indentifying resources is well appreciated...

Thanks in advance,
Grtz,
Martin
Hi Martin,

Sure... Ok... Let's see:

What you have to do is to figure out what you need and then provide it.

You also need to look beyond 4.1d. its just a general requirement. Several other clauses are more specific about resources:

5.1e
5.4.2a
5.6.3c
7.1
not to mention the entire chapter 6.
It's also a good idea to have good long look at ISO9004.

Basically, anything we do to realize our product takes resources.

/Claes
 
S

sneekparty

#6
Ok..that I understand..but

Claes,

I understand that you need resources to make the product, but why should I indentify it...because personally I think it's obvious what resources you need for lets say producing a certain product. ..you need the people who work on the machines, the machines them selfs, etc....

Don't get me wrong..I understand why you need resources, but why should I indentify them if it's so obvious...

Hope to hear from you again, especially because I am a rooky in quality management department....

Grtz,
Martin
 
#7
Ok. You know that you have the resources to produce what you’re currently producing…. That much would be obvious, I agree. But things change.

Do you have the resources to:

continually improve the effectiveness of the QMS? 5.1, 6.1a, 8.5.1
carry out your plans and objectives for the future? 5.4.2
take the actions decided on in management review? 5.6.3
enhance customer satisfaction? 6.1b
provide training or other competence enhancing actions? 6.2.2
over time provide the necessary infrastructure? 6.3
provide resources for needed for new products 7.1b, 7.2.2c

Your resources are limited. Where will they be most effective?

/Claes

Whups.... You beat me to the punch, Jim.:vfunny:
 
S

sneekparty

#8
OK...now I get it...

Still there is one thing that's in my mind...

how deep must I go..I mean...must I indentify the resources of every process?...for example for a little proces like invoiceprocess...because if I do...the resource indentified will look, at least to me, something like:
- computer
- employee

And to continually improve this process the resources will not change at least to my opinion...

Is there maybe someone who has a checklist to check if I indentified everything in a process?

Well thanks again...
And hope to be of some assistance in the near future for you...
Grtz,
Martin
 
#9
Re: OK...now I get it...

sneekparty said:

---X---

And to continually improve this process the resources will not change at least to my opinion...

---X---

Well thanks again...
And hope to be of some assistance in the near future for you...
Grtz,
Martin
You ask good questions. I agree with Jim: This kind of discussion is helpful to us all. It’s always good to penetrate things a bit. Anyway: first of all I agree with what Jim says here. Then I’d like to add this:

Continual improvement may very well change both your available resources as well as your need for them. As a matter of fact, I’d say that is the general idea.

Let’s say you improve something, and boom: all of a sudden it’s a lot smoother and causes less scrap, craves less monitoring, makes longer intervals between maintenance possible, or whatever… The need for resources has changed, right? And so have your available resources: By improving a process you can free resources for other tasks... Like more improvement:D

/Claes
 
Last edited:
S

sneekparty

#10
Ok...my last question (at least I think so ;-) )

So I indentify the primary process and the input, ouput and the resources they need and how I measure there effectiveness..
ok that's clear....We indeed have about...

But what exactly should I indentify as resource? To my opinion its everything you need to make the process work effectively..so even the input....

Grtz,
Martin
 
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