More Etiquette Issues : Earnhardt, Sosa

[Charmed]

Rosanne, Yes

Dear Covers:

Now, etiquette is much more widely prevalent than I thought. You can't curse if you are a NASCAR driver either. I don't know when they will start imposing restrictions on "spitting" all over the place, which I commonly see among both baseball and hockey players.

Charmed do you remember the big stink that was raised a few years ago when ROSANNE finished singing the national anthem she went to home plate grabbed her crotch and spit! my god baseball fans every where came unglued!
But isn't that what baseball is all about "crotch grabbing and spitting"?
How about last nights episode of "Two and a Half Men" where Jake is taught the finer aspects of giving the finger or the house keeper using the word B--tard! National prime time TV.
It would seem NASCAR is a little out of touch.

Dear Jim:

I get in big trouble whenever I mention that (Roseanne) incidence or the hockey players pushing, shoving and literally beating up each other. I am glad to see some of these "fines" being imposed but hopefully there will be a balance soon because the "culture" itself has changed regarding what is now considered acceptable and no longer offensive in public speech - including our law making bodies....Oops!

 

[Carl Keller]

Dean,

I'm not sure about "better" but I guarantee if you take a random sample of median income from Formula fans vs. Nascar fans, you are going to see a big "more-successful-in-life" difference. (Given that you measure success in $, which I don't)

Look, all I am saying is the more elite the sport, the higher the expectation of following certain rules of ettiquette, regardless of the sport.

Baseball fans yell every obscenity going, I have never heard a Golf fan yelling "caddy, you suck!"

OK?

Carl-

 

[Ken K]

Carl, I don't think there is that much difference between the typical Nascar fan and the typical Formula One fan.


Nascar fans like to wash down their brats with a cold beer...

Formula One fans like to wash down their pate' with wine that comes in a bottle with a screw on top...

You have to admit, we all support the sponsors of Nascar one way or another. Goodyear tires, Pensoil, Halvoline, Tide, Bud, Viagra, etc, etc. Pretty common products sold in the US.

And if you were lucky to attend the US GP, you would have noticed the stands filled with your typical Nascar fan...if not the place would have been almost empty.

But your right, Formula One is exciting to watch...almost as much as watching my grass grow

 

[Carl Keller]

Ken,

I was with you up to the Viagra.

Carl-

 

[Dean P.]

So how do you measure the 'eliteness' of a sport, Carl? Is it the amount of money that's invested into it? If so, soccer would be up there at the top, wouldn't it? And I don't think you can really say that soccer fans are picky about rules of etiquette (in general). Is an elite sport only one that has financially successful fans? If I don't make $200K+ per year, can I not be a fan of F1?

Although I don't follow F1 closely, I don't recall the general etiquette of the sport to include running an opponent off the track if you're going to lose (see Schumacher vs. Villeneuve a few years back), or forcing your own teamate to hit the brakes and pull back and place 2nd, just so you can win (Schu again, last year).

My point was that there are differences in the fan bases of different sports, based on the origins of the sport, being able to relate to the athletes (or drivers), local culture, etc. Your point seems to be that the main difference is the average income, and the higher the better.

Dean

 

[little__cee]

Childish!

The problem I have with NASCAR is the childish attitude of those in charge - summed up as "if you don't like it I'll take my ball and go home."

Case in point: several years ago one of the drivers lined up a sponsorship with Crown Royal. NASCAR denied this saying that hard liquor sponsors are not allowed and that this dates back to "old days" of the sport. Okay fine. Say you're a family entity, don't let the drivers swear, push Viagra in front of the camera, keep the hard liquor sponsors out, oh and don't forget to totally change the rules and offer the name of the entire tour up for grabs to the highest bidder...plus build new cookie-cutter tracks so that you can eliminate the ones with real history. UGH!

It really sickens me what they've done to it. It used to be fun to go hang out at the track for a day. Now, I can't afford it and wouldn't want to - after building more seats more seats more seats suddenly it takes you 4 hours just to leave most tracks??? Amazing!

 

[Carl Keller]

Eliteness does not have so much to do with the amount of money put INTO it, it is more of how much money SURROUNDS it. If the everage joe can afford to participate in it, or in some cases attend it, it probably isn't elite.

F1 has always been a rich man's sport. Not my rules, theirs.

The ettiquette of the drivers (and fans) in F1 FAR surpasses Nascar, regardless of who pushes who off the track or what company is your sponsor. If a driver plays games there, they will not have to worry about losing points, the other race teams will banish them. I have to say, it is more relaxed than it used to be and there is some driver "crossover" happening, but there are distinct differences.

For NASCAR to pass on hard liquor sponsors seems ludicrous considering Junior Johnson was responsible for a major part of the early sport and was known for running moonshine throuh the hills of North Carolina.

Example: I don't play Polo, but if I did I would expect that there would be a whole litany of rules that I would need to adhere to. I would also probably have the only Hyundai in the lot. As much as I think it is a cool sport, and I make pretty good money, I would definitely not fit in. I really don't see anything wrong with that. My two girls love a good Major league baseball game too, but when the guy behind me starts cursing up a storm (and they have), I have one of two choices, kick the guys a** , or don't take them to places where the rules of ettiquette are lower.

Carl-

 

[little__cee]

off topic-baseball

I went to a major league baseball park this weekend and was shocked at the conduct of the people there - not for shocking behavior but general stupidity and ignorance. People wandering around, not knowing where their seats were, what section they were in, etc. People standing up and congregating in the aisles while the game was being played...

We paid a lot of money for our seats. And unlike many chatting on their cell phones I was trying to watch the game! I couldn't believe that people needed to be "up and down" that often during the few hours we were there.

I turned to my husband at one point and asked if we were the only ones remaining seated and watching the game. I was always taught to remain in my seat and if I had to use the 'facilities' to wait until play had momentarily stopped, such as between innings, to leave my seat. Not these people. Has anyone else had such an experience?

 

[SteelWoman]

This issue came up on our local news station today - they asked a "what do you think" question about whether or not Earnhardt should be penalized the points in addition to the fine for the use of the "s" word.

My two cents:

I don't consider the "s" word in the context in which he used it to be a "curse" word. If he had said "S@*&!, I screwed that up!" then it would be cursing, but "it doesn't mean "S"*&!" isn't quite the same, at least in my book.

If you want to fine him $$$ because of his out-of-the-car behavior, then I don't have a problem with that. But the POINTS are all about his abilities as a driver, whereas the cursing has NOTHING to do with his skills/abilities as a driver. Put it in the context of a different sport. What if this were Lance Armstrong instead of Earnhardt - do you strip him of the Tour de France victory, knock him back to second instead, because he steps off the bike and says a curse word?! Don't be ridiculous, no one would even suggest it! Fine him if you must, but removing the points is just ridiculous. It confuses the out of the car behavior with the in the car skill, which is what it's supposed to be about.

All IMHO, of course. By the way, I'm not even a Nascar fan

 

[Randy Stewart]

I'm not a NASCAR fan either, but I happened across a bit on the history of the sport on the Speed Channel (Drag Racing!!!! ). They were talking about Dale Sr. in his earlier days. He wanted off the dirt track and from the stories he raced fairly dirty. But what really got me (and going along with this tread) was when they talked about him showing up for a race with a "wad of bacca in his mouth and a 5th of Ole Grand Dad in his back pocket". Now I just can't picture Jackie Stewart showing up for a F1 race like that.

Talk about a rep, look at how people view a Detroit Red Wing Fan? Folks, you really don't want to know how some of those guys sneak that octopus into the Joe!:mg: