Motivation of Internal Auditors - Anyone have any good ideas?

S

Shannon - 2007

#31
Wow, a lively thread to jump into for a first-timer!
As a "rookie", please forgive my inexperience.


As a I was writing my response, I expected some may mis-interpret my intentions.
Are people part of the System? You bet!
I just struggle with how we would measure "motivation".
I agree with Energy.
When I read 6.2.2.d "ensure that it's personnel are aware of the relevance and importance of their activities and how they contribute to the achievement of the quality objectives", or 6.4 "The organization shall determine and manage the work environment needed to achieve conformity to product requirements", I don't see any reference to a requirement regarding "motivation".

I agree with Mike S., in that these issues are responsible for problems outside the scope or visibility of the QMS, and that they are important. Important enough to comment on. But, I would opt for reporting them outside the scope of an audit. Managment does need to be aware of these issues, if they aren't so already.
Some of the examples, such as "fudging QA records", should be a non-conformance and reported as such within the audit.

When I first read the thread, I thought we were talking about an external auditor.

I'm in the infancy stages of implementation, and tend to focus on meeting the minimum requirements.
As our system matures, I will be looking at how can we build upon it. Expanding the scope of the audits to include "motivation" may be a good idea . . . . when the time and conditions are right.


;)
 
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Mike S.

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#32
Shannon said:

Quote: "Wow, a lively thread to jump into for a first-timer!
As a "rookie", please forgive my inexperience."

We're all "rookies" at something or other and we all can learn, no matter how much of a "vet" we are. No apologies needed. I'm not a "rookie" but nor am I a "vet" -- maybe a "tweener" with lots to learn.
__________
Quote: "Some of the examples, such as "fudging QA records", should be a non-conformance and reported as such within the audit."

If it is caught it should be a BIG deal NC. My point here is that often (most of the time?) a regular audit won't catch careful "fudging".

Mike S.
:bigwave:
 
S

Shannon - 2007

#33
True!
Careful fudging can be overlooked.

It sounds like we're beginning to discuss all the "other" responsibilities that make up our jobs as QS Champions/Managers/Change Agents (pick one).

Like many of you, I'm always in "audit" mode.
Daily, I make observations and have discussions with all associates on all levels, always on the lookout for barriers to a successful implementation, regardless if they fall under the QS "scope" or not.
Findings need to be shared with the key people that can have an impact on them. My point is that not all these "findings" should be reported through the formal auditing process.

As my boss would say . . . "I think we're in violent agreement".

:)
 
W

WALLACE

#34
Motivational values.

I must have been dreaming (As usual), I missed this thread and, It's such an interesting thread too.
I have indeed come across audits when it was an absolute asset to know how to assess the motivational positioning of the so called auditee's.
I came across this area when I first read Allan J Sayle's publication titled Management Audits. This book at first gave me a point of start regarding looking at auditing techniques that would allow me to measure namely, the Task elements, these elements are very well laid out and explaind in this book and, I would encourage any quality auditor to obtain this book for a very good read.
I also was pointed to a book by Shelle Rose Charvet called "Words that change minds", this book uses the techniques of Neuro Linguistic Programing (NLP), as the book title implies, words change minds and the psycholological aspect of auditing is a skill that is a must for any forward thinking auditor.
I found that using the techniques presented by Sayle and Charvet allowed me to become more proficient using communication skills that allow the auditee to express their motivational criteria (Values) in relation to a given context within an audit assessment. The LAB (Language and behaviour) profile that is found within Charvet's book is an excellent tool for an auditor, It allows you to ask key questions that allow an auditee to express their context values relating to the audit criteria, I found also that, I didn't really need to ask a specific question to get the information that I needed, The LAB profile allows me to just listen.
Wallace.
 
W

WALLACE

#36
What is motivation.

OH, Kevin you're scaring me.
Motivation My definition: Motivation is Influence.
Wallace.
 
E

energy

#37
Yea?

Kevin Mader said:

What is Motivation?
It appears to be in the eye of the beholder. I can look at you and say "What a slacker. Where's his motivation?" On the other hand, he may just have been told that his services are no longer needed. You can't judge it, rate it or talk about anybody else's. You can, however, do those things with your own. It's a great topic to dwell on, but the only thing you can be certain of is your own motivation. You can justify having or lacking it. Just you. M is off base thinking he can make that call by his own observations. It's like judging art. JMHO :bonk: :ko: :smokin:
 

Kevin Mader

One of THE Original Covers!
Staff member
Admin
#38
What scale would we use to measure another’s motivation? In my experience, when we say that others aren’t motivated we should be really saying that they aren’t motivated to do what we want them to do. Sure enough, they are motivated. They are motivated to do the opposite of what we want.

In Martin’s case, he heard accounts from folks that they were demoralized and unmotivated because promised pay increases never came about. I have these thoughts on that topic.

First, it would be difficult to substantiate this claim. For that reason, I would classify it as hearsay and not include it in the audit report unless I uncovered objective evidence to substantiate the claim.

Second, it is likely that the money aspect would not have created motivation in the first place. By Herzberg’s definition, it would likely only create movement. Kohn would agree with that claim and so would I. Maslow would consider whether such an increase is necessary to fulfill primary needs in his hierarchy. I would concede that some folks may have lost motivation because they in fact required such compensation to sustain basic needs. Otherwise, the loss of promised money leads to a demotivated state that is what Martin probably observed.

I think Herzberg does the best job in differentiating the hygienic factors from motivational factors. Keep in mind that hygienic factors do not lead to motivation. Instead, they range from a negative state to a neutral one. Motivational factors range from a neutral state to a positive one. The opposite of satisfaction is not dissatisfaction. Money, oddly enough, crosses the divide that suggests to me that Maslow is probably right.

From the standards perspective, I pick up on some key words such as “achievement” and “work environment”, things so noted by Herzberg. Whether specifically stated or not, I believe that it is implied that auditors must observe for states of satisfaction and dissatisfaction. As such, it is reportable provided you uncover the objective evidence.

Management is obligated to provide adequate resources, training, and a good environment. The standard is littered with such comments. Auditors must look into the potential sources for such a negative state. Primarily, my focus would be on the management responsibility to the system. Do they understand their obligations? Are they committed to living up to them? Find the objective evidence to present. Doing so might help to improve the overall conditions and the likelihood that there will be a tomorrow.

Kevin
 
M

M Greenaway

#39
Could we define motivation as the drive to achieve an objective or purpose ?

I think you can clearly see when people are totally unmotivated. Yes we all have varying degrees of motivation, and I wouldnt go anywhere near stating that someones motivation appeared slightly lacking in some way or another. Yes who am I to judge !

But you can identify when people are grossly unmotivated, particularly when they say comments like they couldnt give a **** about the job, the organisation or the customer - and stated in no uncertain terms !!

Money itself was not the motivator/unmotivator in this case, it was more the promise of money on achievement of an objective that never materialised. I dont think the lack of motivation came from not getting the cash, I think it was more that the management had 'fooled' the staff, and they wouldnt get fooled again.

Clearly it was wrong in this instance to use money as a motivator, and what was more wrong was not to have given it when promised.
 
M

Michael T

#40
Smoooooth

Kevin Mader said:

What is Motivation?
Cool move, Kev.... That's like pulling the pin, tossing the grenade, the closing the door.... :vfunny: :biglaugh: :smokin:

I love it!!!

How goes daddyhood? :bigwave:
 
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