MR (Management Representative) also doing Internal Audits?

C

Craig H.

#11
What about the one person company?
Excellent question. Can we just have external audits, and omit the internal ones? Or just document some day to day activities and use those as an Internal (I audited myself, myself) audit? Hmmm.
 
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Randy

Super Moderator
#13
Seriously? Surely, the number of ISO registered one person companies is so tiny as to make a consideration of no consequence...
Maybe so, but how is this...1.2 Application
All requirements of this International Standard are generic and are intended to be applicable to all organizations, regardless of type, size and product provided.


....consistant with this?...The selection of auditors and conduct of audits shall ensure objectivity and impartiality of the audit process. Auditors shall not audit their own work.

...and it can be of major consequence to the small company.


Of this...The selection of auditors and conduct of audits shall ensure objectivity and impartiality of the audit process. ...or this...Auditors shall not audit their own work., which is the most important and provides the greatest value?
 
L

LSS Master

#14
In my experience, the number of one-person companies that are registered is small. However, the Standard does apply. I have used sub-contract auditors for IAs in such companies and have also had registered companies, within a reasonable distance of each other, "borrow" IAs or "swap: IAs to perform their Internal Audits.

Swapping works well, as it presents a new challenge to the IAs, improving their skill set, thier interest, and stimulating their learning. As a side benefit, the price is usually nil! A win/win.......:agree:
 
R

RedneckJunky

#15
I currently serve as Management Rep and primary internal auditor for my company. I did the same thing as Quality Manager for an automotive supplier under TS-16949. I never had any issues from my registrars, as long as I didn't audit the processes which fell under my direct authority.
 
#16
Maybe so, but how is this...1.2 Application
All requirements of this International Standard are generic and are intended to be applicable to all organizations, regardless of type, size and product provided.


....consistant with this?...The selection of auditors and conduct of audits shall ensure objectivity and impartiality of the audit process. Auditors shall not audit their own work.

...and it can be of major consequence to the small company.


Of this...The selection of auditors and conduct of audits shall ensure objectivity and impartiality of the audit process. ...or this...Auditors shall not audit their own work., which is the most important and provides the greatest value?
I don't disagree that there are (serious) inconsistencies in the standard, Randy. As we know there's been a long running discussion over Preventive Action, for example. However, that said, the OP asked if the Management Rep could/couldn't do audits...

Unless this is a one person company, as as empathetic to your comment as I am, it's irrelevant to the OP's question! IMHO!
 

Randy

Super Moderator
#19
Unless this is a one person company, as as empathetic to your comment as I am, it's irrelevant to the OP's question!
Perfectly relevant, in a one person comapny that one person would be in management and would also be the MR.

And we have discussed this before, but there are no external resources available and/or the one person company couldn't afford an external resource.....Now what?

Can the MR do internal audits? As far as I'm concerned the "visionaries" that created the requirements of the standard I pointed out (9001) either didn't read the Applicabilty section, they didn't even consider a single person organization, or both. The language of ISO 9001 makes the standard applicable to the small company but then writes it's ability to meet the requirements off as inconsequential. Smug and snotty.

When you look at other main stream standards like 14001 you may not see the "thou shall not..." language because the true value of the audit is in its objectiveness, unbiased and impartial approach. Independance of process or activity is a not really a guarantee.

And yes Sid, this has been discussed before and probably will be again until the leaders in the field come back down and get some oxygen.
 
P

prabhatchaddha

#20
Dear All,
In a large organisation i dont see any issue MR doing internal audit,In such organisations most of the work has been delegated and certainly MR doing an audit will help as he knows nearly all the processes.
It will always help in knowing how the system in place are effective or what modifications/Amendments are to be made.
If an MR is unbaised i think we can have best internal Audit report and a seriously good chance for an improvement

Regards
 
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