MR (Management Representative) Requirements and Responsibilites

W

Willyboy

#1
I found a previous post dealing with the qualifications required to be a Management Representative. There was much helpful information, but I still have a few questions.


Our QMS states that “Management has appointed a member of management to be Management Representative who has the authority and responsibility for ensuring the processes needed for the QMS are established, implemented, measured and maintained. The Quality Assurance Coordinator has been appointed Management Representative.” (My bolding and italicizing.)


As we all know, clause 5.5.2 states that “Top management shall appoint a member of the organization's management who, irrespective of other responsibilities, shall have responsibility and authority that includes .....”


Is there an issue with 5.5.2 stating “Top management...” and our QMS simply stating “Management has...” (without reference to Top)? I ask this because our organizational chart has positions for a Board of Directors, a President/CEO, a Director of Program Operations, a Workshop Operations Manager, two Assistant Facility Managers, a Lead Program Manager and two Program Managers. All of these people supervise and/or manage someone else.


In the Introduction to ISO 9001:2008 it states that:
“The adoption of a quality management system should be a strategic decision of an organization. The design and implementation of an organization's quality management system is influenced by
a) its organizational environment, changes in that environment and risks associated with that environment,
b) its varying needs,
c) its particular objectives,
d) the products it provides,
e) the processes it employs,
f) it size and organizational structure.
It is not the intent of this International Standard to imply uniformity in the structure of quality management systems or uniformity of documentation.”


With the information provided in the 9001:2008 Introduction, it seems to me that this gives the organization a loop hole to set up their system with whomever they like from whatever position in the organization that they choose. Am I reading too much or too little into the Introduction?
-----
As previously mentioned, our QMS states that “Management has appointed a member of management to be Management Representative who has the authority and responsibility for ensuring the processes needed for the QMS are established, implemented, measured and maintained.


To me, the above statement gives the MR ALL the power that they need to make sure that all of the requirements of both the QMS and the customer's product requirements are being fulfilled. In my current opinion, the MR does not need to be specifically noted in the QMS procedures because they already have the authority and responsibility.


I am curious about this because in a previous post I mentioned that a job was botched from the very beginning. Our QA/MR is stating that he was not included in the design and setup of the processes because no one told him and/or asked him about the job. He states that his position should be noted in the Responsibilities section for our Procedures for the Contract Review and Process Setup for New Jobs. Our QMS Policy Manual sections for Planning of Product Realization and Customer Related Processes already include Management in the Responsibilities.


As always, any thoughts, comments and questions are appreciated.


Thanks.


Bill
 
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Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#2
Re: MR Requirements and Responsibilites

It's possible for the MR to ensure that processes are established, implemented, maintained, etc. and for a job to be "botched from the very beginning." What you're describing is lack of organization and as Deming put it, "constancy of purpose." There should be a standard method of developing new products and processes, with clear responsibility and authority defined. It's hard to tell from here whether your MR was actually left out of the loop or is just making excuses after something crashed and burned. The problem you're facing is one of leadership, and looking for loopholes* in the standard when something goes wrong isn't going to help anything. If your top management isn't prepared to pick up the slack and do something about the situation, putting someone's name or title in a procedure isn't likely to solve the problem.


*There's a story, perhaps apocryphal, about W.C. Fields on his deathbed. A friend comes to visit him and finds him reading the Bible. This would have been uncharacteristic behavior for Fields, and his friend asked him why he was doing it. "I'm looking for loopholes," replied Fields.
 

jkuil

Quite Involved in Discussions
#3
Re: MR Requirements and Responsibilites

The MR is responsible for the system by which the organisation designs and implements the QMS and ensures that the QMS meets the defined requirements adequately adressing the influences defined in ISO 9001:2008.

That does not mean the MR is responsible for the strategic decision the organisation is making regarding their quality objectives, that is a (top) management responsibility.
Neither does it mean that the MR is responsible for all tactic decisions: the development of processes, procedures and work instructions by which the quality objectives are ensured. These are the responsibility of the individual managers.

The MR is the linking pin between the QMS documents and the quality objectives. He monitors if the objectives are being met and are adequately being assured by the processes, procedures and work instruction.
 
W

Willyboy

#4
Re: MR Requirements and Responsibilites

It's hard to tell from here whether your MR was actually left out of the loop or is just making excuses after something crashed and burned.
Jim, in my opinion, he left himself out of the loop and is just making excuses.

The problem you're facing is one of leadership, and looking for loopholes* in the standard when something goes wrong isn't going to help anything. If your top management isn't prepared to pick up the slack and do something about the situation, putting someone's name or title in a procedure isn't likely to solve the problem.
For the "loophole" part of my post, I was referring to if an organization, given its size, organizational structure, etc., had to follow 5.5.2 and appoint a member of management, as opposed to, let's say, a non-management staff employee as the MR.

5.5.2 is very clear, but the Introduction muddies the requirement, at least to me it does.

The MR is responsible for the system by which the organisation designs and implements the QMS and ensures that the QMS meets the defined requirements adequately adressing the influences defined in ISO 9001:2008.
JKuil,
The part about "implements the QMS and ensures that the QMS meets the defined requirements" says to me that the QA/MR has both the authority and responsibility to step in and make sure that jobs are being done properly.

Am I catching on?

Thanks!
 
J

John Martinez

#5
Re: MR Requirements and Responsibilites

Jim, in my opinion, he left himself out of the loop and is just making excuses.



For the "loophole" part of my post, I was referring to if an organization, given its size, organizational structure, etc., had to follow 5.5.2 and appoint a member of management, as opposed to, let's say, a non-management staff employee as the MR.

5.5.2 is very clear, but the Introduction muddies the requirement, at least to me it does.



JKuil,
The part about "implements the QMS and ensures that the QMS meets the defined requirements" says to me that the QA/MR has both the authority and responsibility to step in and make sure that jobs are being done properly.

Am I catching on?

Thanks!
Willyboy - Responsibility without the Authority to implement is an equation for Frustration or Falure R-A=F

I see in your original post whether or not to use the word "Top". Do you have a copy of ISO 9000:2005? If so, look at definition of top management and organization.
 
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