MSA 3rd- need customer approve!!!

W

wisanu

#1
Greeting,
I've just got TS 16949 pre-assessment by a registrar. He raised me CARs that I don't agree with his interpretation as below detail;

My customers include GM,Ford and lots of Japanese OEM. My company uses AIAG APQP phases as a key approach for new product development process, and MSA 3rd edition for measurement system studies. The auditor said that I need to obtain approval from customers those are not Big 3 proir to implement APQP and MSA 3rd.

Am I correct? or should I accept the CARs? Please comment.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor
#2
auditor said that I need to obtain approval from customers those are not Big 3 proir to implement APQP and MSA 3rd
I'm not use that the word approval is accurate. You must follow your customers' mandated process. One the MSA, the wording in 7.6.1 is: "Other analytical methods and acceptance criteria may be used if approved by the customer". The key here is "other analytical methods". The previous sentence says: "The analytical methods and acceptance criteria used shall conform to those in the customer reference manuals on measurements systems analysis". You must use the method prescribed by your customer. Should you use anything different, then you must get your customer's approval.

APQP is only referenced in one note following 7.1 (I believe), and that does not indicate you must obtain any approvals.

PPAP (7.3.6.3) also mandates you use a system recognized by your customer.

Hope that helps
 
S
#3
Wisanu,
First check with your Japanese customers. If they do not have a requirement, then ask your auditor to show you where approval is required. If that doesn't work send a letter to your CB asking for clarification from the IAOB.
 
Y
#4
I don't see why there should be an approval for an organization which is adopting APQP and MSA process. Both processes are recognised in QS9000, and thus, IMO, it should be well acceptable in ISO/TS16949 certification.

If an organization is using another method, which differs from the APQP and MSA process, then maybe the organziation should get an approval from the customer, since we are talking about the process approach methodlogy here (input -> process -> output).

Maybe you can confirm this with the Certification Body, or as Sam put it, check with IAOB
 
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