MSA for Vision Sorting Equipment (Measurement System Analysis)

D

D.Scott

#1
Does anyone out there do sorting with Vision systems or E-current? If so, do you do MSA on the equipment using variable or attribute data? What do you find is valid for qualifications?

I currently bring the equipment in using the numerical values recorded for test pieces (traceable to NIST) run 3 times but with only 1 operator as the equipment feed is automatic. Once the equipment is in the system, it becomes a go/no-go gage rejecting or approving parts based on a window specified in the programming. Rabbits (test pieces) are run at various increments to verify the accuracy of the process.

Questions - Would you consider this adequate? Would you submit the original numerical MSA when doing PPAP or would you send an attribute study using the good/bad rabbits (which, by the way, aren't always available at the start of a project)? If you would do something else, what would that be?

Thanks in advance.

Dave
 
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The Taz!

Quite Involved in Discussions
#2
Dave,

Having used both, IMHO, you may not necessarily need a full MSA on the equipment. If you do perform, I suggest using Attribue study. You are looking at Accept/Reject criteria not necessarily how good or how bad.

Suggest using a Verification piece at the start of each shift. That will VERIFY the test as doing what is is supposed to do. . . Accept Good and Reject bad. Use an accdeptable piece (or two) and a rejectable piece (or two). This is simalar to VERIFYING a hardness tester prior to use.

I have used E-current equipment for over 25 years, and have only found one systyem on the market that really addresses what it is supposed to, and has the discrimination to separate dimensional from other characteristics.

Again, keep it simple and straight-forward. . . IMHO
 
B

Bill Ryan - 2007

#3
We have recently gone pretty heavily into both vision and "max material probing" systems. They are, typically, put in-line and "Poka-Yoked" so someone can't walk by and "missplace" a part (me???). We have only used the attribute type of study as, like Taz said, it is only for "Go/NoGo" types of checks. Our vision systems are checking for porosity, laminations, nonfills, etc. The max material systems check for positions, hole size (minimum), and presence of various features. We are also using more and more leak testers. I've not had any problems using "good" parts with the known "rabbits" and submitting the generic "short" attribute study format.

Not much experience with the E-current testing. We have, in the past, used an outside source when that need has come about. As we are getting more and more into structural castings, that will probably become a necessity in the near future.

Bill
 

The Taz!

Quite Involved in Discussions
#4
Bill Ryan said:
We are also using more and more leak testers. I've not had any problems using "good" parts with the known "rabbits" and submitting the generic "short" attribute study format. Bill

Bill,

I've used machine leak tests and testers for quite a while. . . highly recommend using some SPC software or such to actually chart the values obtained during the test. . . The Tech's can monitor this periodically and look for adverse trends in the data. This is a method to determine maintenance intervals and make sure the testers are repaired/re-correlated before you get rejects (Barring bad parts that is).

The actual test is a GO/NO-GO. . .but you do generate variable data from the transducers that can be used to monitor the integrity of the testing system.

Just a bunch of experience talking here. .
 
B

Bill Ryan - 2007

#5
The Taz! said:
Bill,

I've used machine leak tests and testers for quite a while. . . highly recommend using some SPC software or such to actually chart the values obtained during the test. . . The Tech's can monitor this periodically and look for adverse trends in the data. This is a method to determine maintenance intervals and make sure the testers are repaired/re-correlated before you get rejects (Barring bad parts that is).

The actual test is a GO/NO-GO. . .but you do generate variable data from the transducers that can be used to monitor the integrity of the testing system.

Just a bunch of experience talking here. .
Point well taken. Thanks Taz.

Bill
 
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