MSA is similar to driving a car?

R

Rio BP Simbolon

#1
I have different opinion with auditor. He wanted that All dimension measurements have it's GR&R study... But in practically its hard to do because so many part and so many dimension on each part. One drawing for a part automotive will have many dimension,

For MSA activity in our place, first, Our engineering will review customer drawing with identify all measuring, if there is similar measurement method, we dont need to do gage R&R any more, we can use existing GR&R study (similar part)
Example:
Existing Part A (name bracket A, with dimension on drawing, there 4 stamping operators who measure:
- Thickness, 1,7- 1,78 mm; We used micro meter
- Height, 98,56 - 99,57 mm; we use height gauge.
- Inner Diameter, 6,6 - 7,0 mm with caliper

We got new product bracket C last month with same dimension with bracket-A but different specification
- Thickness, 2,2- 2,5 mm
- Height, 56,50 - 57,00 mm
- Inner Diameter 90,00 - 95,00 mm

We consider that measuring method for : thickness, height and inner diameter are similar between part A and C, so that we use study variation A to describe study variation bracket C.

In our stamping plant there are more than 140 pcs part produced daily and now we are facing 80 part (new product) in august- October....

MSA is measurement validation. when there are parts with different dimension but have same method, we can use same GR&R study.
in Our Opinion, MSA is same with how to drive our car, if we buy a new manual car should we practice again how to drive that car?

if We follow the auditor, I am afraid that MSA only understood how to calculating formula.

Please your comment,

Best Regards:agree:
 
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Miner

Forum Moderator
Staff member
Admin
#2
Read my blog entry on Creating Gauge Families for some ideas. You should be able to specify a range and tightest tolerance for each type of gauge (if used for inspection). If used for process control, try specifying a range and tightest process variation for each type of gauge. You would have to demonstrate the process variation for each dimension under process control.

This is a logical argument, but will not guarantee success with your auditor. Hopefully, some of our auditor Covers will offer suggestions on how to deal with that issue.
 

Jim Wynne

Staff member
Admin
#3
I have different opinion with auditor. He wanted that All dimension measurements have it's GR&R study... But in practically its hard to do because so many part and so many dimension on each part. One drawing for a part automotive will have many dimension,

For MSA activity in our place, first, Our engineering will review customer drawing with identify all measuring, if there is similar measurement method, we dont need to do gage R&R any more, we can use existing GR&R study (similar part)
Example:
Existing Part A (name bracket A, with dimension on drawing, there 4 stamping operators who measure:
- Thickness, 1,7- 1,78 mm; We used micro meter
- Height, 98,56 - 99,57 mm; we use height gauge.
- Inner Diameter, 6,6 - 7,0 mm with caliper

We got new product bracket C last month with same dimension with bracket-A but different specification
- Thickness, 2,2- 2,5 mm
- Height, 56,50 - 57,00 mm
- Inner Diameter 90,00 - 95,00 mm

We consider that measuring method for : thickness, height and inner diameter are similar between part A and C, so that we use study variation A to describe study variation bracket C.

In our stamping plant there are more than 140 pcs part produced daily and now we are facing 80 part (new product) in august- October....

MSA is measurement validation. when there are parts with different dimension but have same method, we can use same GR&R study.
in Our Opinion, MSA is same with how to drive our car, if we buy a new manual car should we practice again how to drive that car?

if We follow the auditor, I am afraid that MSA only understood how to calculating formula.

Please your comment,

Best Regards:agree:
What kind of auditor? Internal? Customer? Registrar? If it's a customer auditor you have a challenge ahead of you, but with an internal or CB auditor you need to ask where the requirement is documented. If there was a written nonconformity statement, it should cite both the documented requirement and the nature of the failure to meet the requirement.
 
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