MSA on an in-line automatic X-ray thickness measuring gage

P

pepe76

#1
Please help me,

We're manufacturing cold rolled steel strips. Should I evaulate measuring system analysis to an automated in-line X-ray thickness measuring gage. The gage controlls the milling process.
 
Elsmar Forum Sponsor

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Staff member
Super Moderator
#2
well, yes you should perform an MSA on the system. This is a common dilemma for manufacturing - measuring systems are 'sold' based on their accuracy. the more techologically advanced, the more hype regarding their ability. Frequently these systems are appropriate and properly ddeployed, so an MSA merely confirms this. But too often these systems are not propely deployed and they fail an MSA. there is no way to predict the capability of a system without data. So yes, if the measurement is critical to ensure quality of your product then you should perfrom an MSA.

why would you consider not performing the analysis?
 
P

pepe76

#3
I read it in a GM Measurement System Specification.:
"In-line automatic gages are of 4 types:
A) Pre-process compensating (feed forward). The gage measures the workpiece before processing and "tells" a
subsequent process step how much stock to remove.
B) In-process controlling. The gage measures the workpiece as it is being processed. The gage controls the amount of
stock removed and typically stops the process at a preset point.
C) Post-process compensating (feed back). The gage measures the workpiece made in a previous process step, "tells"
that process step how much to change the stock removal on subsequent workpieces, and accepts or rejects the
measured workpiece.
D) Post-process sorting. The gage measures the workpiece made in a previous process step and accepts or rejects the
workpiece.
Generally, gage types A and B should not be the Gage of Record; gage types C and D should be the Gage of Record.
Gage types A, C, and D require Type-1 (see section 2.2.6.1) and Type-3 (see section 2.2.6.3) studies; gage type B does​
not."

I think this gage is type B.

 

Bev D

Heretical Statistician
Staff member
Super Moderator
#4
even tho it is not required (since the gage is used for in process control) by some standard, the gage is being used to adjust the process and if its wrong it could produce non conforming parts. for their own protection they should perform an MSA to ensure they are truly controlling their process.

Customers often don't care about their supplier's yield; they care more about the final inspection system that 'guarantees' no nonconforming material will be shipped. But the supplier probably does care about yield as it directly effects profits and ability to deliver on time.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
D Cpk and MSA study for Chemical Production Line Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 4
J Automated In-Line Inspection MSA (Measurement System Analysis) Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 5
Ron Rompen MSA on automated measurement system - Multiple Step Vision System Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
G MSA check list to audit IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 8
R MSA for ATE (Automatic Test Equipment Embedded Software) Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 9
Bev D MSA Tools Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 3
R MSA studies for Heat Treatment Equipment Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
C Industrial scales and MSA (IATF 16949 requirement 7.1.5.1.1) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 30
M Difference between MSA and MSE? General Measurement Device and Calibration Topics 1
M Test method validation - Is MSA (MSA1, MSA2, MSA3 and linearity) a good solution? Medical Device and FDA Regulations and Standards News 1
A MSA results differences - Supplier results vs. My results Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
R Preliminary MSA and Sockets' correlation Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 0
I MSA requirement for 5 Micrometers + CP changes need customer approval? IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 2
T Correct MSA study for an automated camera system which makes attribute inspection Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
Bev D MSA Misc. Quality Assurance and Business Systems Related Topics 46
Emran.mi Measurement system analysis - Can you help me about implementation MSA for CMM device Manufacturing and Related Processes 2
N MSA Study for a Leak Testing Device Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 6
N Justifications for not performing MSA (Measurement System Analysis) Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 6
D Do I need part variation while doing Destructive Variable Gage R&R MSA study Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 19
Prashant G MSA Study - AS 9100 and and our customer want us to do MSA study for their parts dimension Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 4
D Compression Spring Force MSA Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 5
E MSA Study on MTS dynamic rate measurements Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 5
A The FILE recommended by AIAG MSA 4ed for LINEARITY Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 0
S IATF 16949 Audit MSA IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 10
C Do Calibration Reference Standards require an MSA study? Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
A MSA When an Instrument Measures More than One Parameter Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 7
G MSA Type 1 - Cg and Cgk ranges Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
O MSA Study for a steel ruler Manufacturing and Related Processes 6
P IATF 16949 MSA Studies for CMM machines IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 3
B 7.1.5.1.1 MSA for inline dimension vision inspection equipment IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
G MSA on a Counting System Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
C AIAG's IATF 16949 section 7.1.5.1.1 - Torque MSA Requirement Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 10
S IATF 16949 7.1.5.1.1 Measurement System Analysis (MSA - Die casting) IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 5
J MSA on Part Specific Attribute Fixtures Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 2
G ANOVA GR&R: Minitab vs AIAG MSA results Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 7
S Test Method Validation or MSA for Batch Manufacturing Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
S MSA on a process using different fixtures Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 1
B Camera Vision System Measurement System Analysis (MSA) Reliability Analysis - Predictions, Testing and Standards 3
D Cp/Cpk on Gages for MSA (vs. Cg/Cgk) Capability, Accuracy and Stability - Processes, Machines, etc. 21
L Number of Distinct Categories" or NDC Calculation in MSA Studies Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 8
Q Doing an MSA on a Climatic Chamber Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
L IATF 16949 7.1.5.1.1 Measurement System Analysis (MSA) - Visual Inspection IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 14
C MSA for Non Manufacturing - Design Validation, Characterization and Qualification Lab Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
C PPAP Rejection for "MSA-GR&R are not using the latest AIAG format" APQP and PPAP 9
C MSA (Measurement System Analysis) - Instrument Selection Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 4
C MSA (Measurement System Analysis) - Dimension Selection Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 5
P Frequency and Sample Size Requirements for an MSA Studies Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 4
A Automated Measurement Machine MSA - Small Parts Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 3
Crimpshrine13 MSA for a part Automated and part Manual Inspection Machine IATF 16949 - Automotive Quality Systems Standard 7
S MSA (Measurement System Analysis) - Process Tolerances Gage R&R (GR&R) and MSA (Measurement Systems Analysis) 9

Similar threads

Top Bottom