MSA requirements for IATF

[qusys]

Hi mates,
could you share your feedback about where to carry out MSA study in an production line where all equipment are automated?
Do you also perform MSA for incoming process, packaging , shipping?

 

[Sebastian]

MSA, in my opinion, is designed for part inspection systems, where operator can significantly affect inspection result/evaluation.
Risk related to his/her instability has to be determined and considered while taking decision, whether measurement system would be or not reliable.
In case of automated systems, calibration does a MSA job supported by frequently verification (when possible) using some "masters".

You have to develop MSA policy.
It means, when manufacturing process for new product is designed, you know when MSA would be or not needed.
I suggest setting "combos" - simple combination gauge & inspected characteristic.
You can add & material part is made from, when you use various materials.
It doesn't matter if I measure wall thickness during incoming inspection or turning process.
It is a same measuring system and may be covered by one MSA.

 

[qusys]

MSA, in my opinion, is designed for part inspection systems, where operator can significantly affect inspection result/evaluation.
Risk related to his/her instability has to be determined and considered while taking decision, whether measurement system would be or not reliable.
In case of automated systems, calibration does a MSA job supported by frequently verification (when possible) using some "masters".

You have to develop MSA policy.
It means, when manufacturing process for new product is designed, you know when MSA would be or not needed.
I suggest setting "combos" - simple combination gauge & inspected characteristic.
You can add & material part is made from, when you use various materials.
It doesn't matter if I measure wall thickness during incoming inspection or turning process.
It is a same measuring system and may be covered by one MSA.

Thanks Sebastian.
Foe example, in incoming of the material the warehouse and IQ personnel check only the CoC associated to that material, if it is completed and in spec. Does this operation need MSA?
In the shipping of the final good, the dedicated operator check if the shipping documentation is ok including the number of the lots? Does this operation need MSA for attributes?

 

[Johnnymo62]

Are you talking about Measurement System Analysis? If so, this is about choosing the correct equipment to take measurements.

Reviewing a CoC would not be a measurement and would not need an MSA. Reviewing shipping documentation and writing or checking the lot numbers would not need an MSA either.

 

[Sebastian]

Reviewing documents does not require Measurement System Analysis, but risk assessment probably yes, but this is different story.

 

[qusys]

Are you talking about Measurement System Analysis? If so, this is about choosing the correct equipment to take measurements.

Reviewing a CoC would not be a measurement and would not need an MSA. Reviewing shipping documentation and writing or checking the lot numbers would not need an MSA either.

Hi Johnnymo62,
thanks.
But for every kind of visual inspection in production line, perfomed by operators checking at prod material only to see if there is some defect, scratch or right number of iteal, is requested MSA by attributes?
Visual check is only done with eyes, not with equipment. Clearly opeators are certified and trained vs the operative prodcedures to be applied.
What about?

 

[qusys]

Reviewing documents does not require Measurement System Analysis, but risk assessment probably yes, but this is different story.

Thanks Sebastian.
Do visual checks performed by the certified operators only with their eyes versus operative procedures for the production matrial in line at certain steps need MSA by attributes?
Visual check requires only the "eyes" of the mfg operators.
I mean that the operations are inspections, done without any equipment or tool.

 

[Bev D]

MSA should be used for both visual and equipment inspection. Both can have serious imprecision. Many Customers require some type of MSA for inspections and tests that pass judgement on the conformance of parts to specification for this reason.
It is also strongly recommended for your own cost and quality protection.

why are you asking about the applicability of MSA? This seems like a very broad and general question. Like asking if someone thinks that breathing is a good idea.

 

[Madredeus]

I was always taught you need to provide MSA for each measurement tool/visual control of part/material atributes which are mentioned in your Control Plan.

 

[qusys]

I was always taught you need to provide MSA for each measurement tool/visual control of part/material atributes which are mentioned in your Control Plan.

Thanks Madredeus,
in the mfg flow some visual inspections are not inncluded as a steps in the electronic industry. This visual checks are reported in the operative procedures and they are done when matetial moves from one area to another by the operator to defect the right number of item inside a lot or eventual strecthes ..