Multi-Division QMS Certification - Pros & Cons

Jeff Putman

Starting to get Involved
#1
Hello Everyone,

Our corporation is looking at going to multi-site TS QMS certification. I can only think of one negative to doing this: one plant gets in trouble (such as containment) then we all are in jeapardy. One pro: big money savings.

I'm looking to hear your pros, cons and experiences.
 
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bobdoering

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Trusted Information Resource
#2
I can only think of one negative to doing this: one plant gets in trouble (such as containment) then we all are in jeopardy.
If you have a corporate QA manager to take the hit....I mean, lead on this, it may not be so bad. BUT, if all of your quality is plant by plant, it would make me uneasy.
 

Bruser

Starting to get Involved
#3
I also am waiting for someone to chime in on this:notme:, I had that suggested by an auditor:cool:.

I have a corporate site and 4 other plants. The policy is a common document with slightly different procedures to meet the particular situations in the different facilities.
The suggestion was to have the satellite plants under the same certificate and they would likely be audited on a rotating basis not every plant every re cert period.:confused:
 

Jeff Putman

Starting to get Involved
#4
If you have a corporate QA manager to take the hit....I mean, lead on this, it may not be so bad. BUT, if all of your quality is plant by plant, it would make me uneasy.
We currently do not have a corporate quality manager and I do not foresee one. What makes you uneasy about that? Please don't hold back, I really want to think this through and hear everyone's thoughts.
 

bobdoering

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#5
We currently do not have a corporate quality manager and I do not foresee one. What makes you uneasy about that? Please don't hold back, I really want to think this through and hear everyone's thoughts.

Let me give you a worst case. Hypothetical situation: My operation is machining - and we keep up our system pretty well. Across town, the other location is plating, and they are lucky the EPA doesn't shut them down. So, my certificate hangs in their hands...and if they mess up, I am in big trouble. If there was a corporate quality person whose responsibility and authority is to ensure all plants keep their systems in order...you might have a better chance.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#6
The suggestion was to have the satellite plants under the same certificate and they would likely be audited on a rotating basis not every plant every re cert period.:confused:
Once again, it looks like we have an auditor providing bad advice. For TS 16949, there is NO sampling allowed. All manufacturing sites get audit during each audit cycle. The only gains are in the possible reduction of audit-days per site. With 4 sites, you could have up to 20% reduction in audit days, per site, during the initial and re-certification audits.
 
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Jeff Putman

Starting to get Involved
#7
Let me give you a worst case. Hypothetical situation: My operation is machining - and we keep up our system pretty well. Across town, the other location is plating, and they are lucky the EPA doesn't shut them down. So, my certificate hangs in their hands...and if they mess up, I am in big trouble. If there was a corporate quality person whose responsibility and authority is to ensure all plants keep their systems in order...you might have a better chance.
I see your point. That is my biggest concern
 

Jeff Putman

Starting to get Involved
#8
I also am waiting for someone to chime in on this:notme:, I had that suggested by an auditor:cool:.

I have a corporate site and 4 other plants. The policy is a common document with slightly different procedures to meet the particular situations in the different facilities.
The suggestion was to have the satellite plants under the same certificate and they would likely be audited on a rotating basis not every plant every re cert period.:confused:
I'm still hoping for a lot more input. Our auditor suggested we do it and it is a big savings, but like bobdoering said, I'm worried about the other plants messing up.

Besides that, does anyone know any other reasons - pro or con?
 

qusys

Trusted Information Resource
#9
ThE QMS Corporate certification possibility also depends on the fact if all mfg site provides part/components for automobile market.
However all the supply chain will be audited from product conception, marketing & sales up to the delivery and post service if any, passing from manufacturing stages.
Then you should also evaluate how to manage the entire certification, with the creation of quality manual and procedure.having an unique manual and well set procedure for corporate standpoint should help to have a common ground with all interested site to speak the same language and adopting the same quality methods ( I mean SPC, FMEA, control plan, MSA, and so on)
Using a Corporate approach will allow cost reduction , from general perspective and based on my knowledge, but I advice to make sure of this with a formal request to your CB, based upon on some parameters( number of employess, sites to be audited and son on). Clearly , this choice will also affect the maintenance of the certification for the future.
Hope this helps.
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#10
Perhaps if the QMS deployment is very clear and is mature enough, then an identification of the Lead site, other sites, Centralized functions and Common functions could benefit for a Multi-division QMS certificate. A draft guidelines is available in GHTF for this on medical devices QMS. Perhaps a similar guidance document for the TS must be available. If the QMS has grown and is mature enough, then I can say its a good proposition to have Multi-division QMS
 
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