Multiple missed POs grounds for SCAR?

#11
Not particularly... Especially in pursuit of answering the question "Why did this happen in the first place?"

I'm gathering that it's a very case-by-case basis, and the issuance of a SCAR isn't necessarily as cut-and-dry as I had initially perceived. Are there any guidances as to when to simply call/e-mail and when to issue a SCAR? Is product compliance/safety kind of the benchmark for that?
I would only issue a scar as a last resort, or maybe to document previous conversations and solutions. We have some jobs we couldn't possibly run in the time allotted. They'll give us 4 weeks LT to run an order that will take 6 weeks to complete in full. We'll send partials as parts come off the line until the order is complete.
 

Sidney Vianna

Post Responsibly
Staff member
Admin
#12
We have some jobs we couldn't possibly run in the time allotted. They'll give us 4 weeks LT to run an order that will take 6 weeks to complete in full. We'll send partials as parts come off the line until the order is complete.
And that is the REAL WORLD. Many times, buyers issue PO's to suppliers knowing full well that the supplier can not meet the overly aggressive delivery dates, but the buyer tells the suppliers, many times, over the phone with no official records: "....I know you can not deliver all of this on-time, but do the best you can do and ship 60% of the order ASAP..."
 

somashekar

Staff member
Super Moderator
#13
Hypothetically speaking, if a supplier repeatedly doesn't fulfill a PO, either wholly or partly, is that grounds for a SCAR? The product that DOES ship is good (i.e., meets all product specifications) so it's not a product issue, and from what I've found, ISO 13485:2016 doesn't speak to process quality to the same level that it does product quality. Thoughts? Is the issue significant enough for a SCAR, or is this just more along the lines of "supplier notification"? Thanks all.
Sorry to be different, Its not grounds for SCAR. Its ground for CAR on your supplier evaluation and selection process...........
 

Chitchat

Registered Visitor
#14
Manage the relationship...not the paperwork...
I absolutely agree....I think this is a wonderful statement and one that I will "borrow" in the future. To me supplier management is about building and working in partnership with our suppliers and not giving them a slap on the hand...remember you catch more fly with honey!
 

Ed Panek

VP QA RA Small Med Dev Company FDA and ISO13485:16
Trusted
#15
From a real world perspective - piss off suppliers at your own risk. If it doesn't present a non conformance on your end I would not worry too much about it.

What I suggest is a face to face meeting with the management person who handles them as a supplier. Tell them about the challenge and ask them to talk to their partner at the other company.
 

Tagin

Starting to get Involved
#16
Hypothetically speaking, if a supplier repeatedly doesn't fulfill a PO, either wholly or partly, is that grounds for a SCAR? The product that DOES ship is good (i.e., meets all product specifications) so it's not a product issue, and from what I've found, ISO 13485:2016 doesn't speak to process quality to the same level that it does product quality. Thoughts? Is the issue significant enough for a SCAR, or is this just more along the lines of "supplier notification"? Thanks all.
If they repeatedly make commitments (i.e., dock dates and quantities) and then repeatedly miss these commitments, then it could warrant a SCAR, as it indicates they are repeatedly breaching their agreements (verbals or written). This indicates a process issue on their end. Sure, it could be due to sub-tier supplier issues, but that's on your supplier to work out and correct/improve their upstream communications and/or qualification process.

If they are making best-effort and being as communicative as possible to revise dates & quantities due to whatever uncontrollable circumstances external to the supplier are preventing fulfillment, then its your "supplier evaluation" judgment call as to whether this supplier needs to be replaced or if they are making the best of whatever difficult circumstances are causing these issues.
 

Johnnymo62

Involved In Discussions
#17
Does this come up in your Management Review, for the Purchasing Department? Does it affect a Purchasing measurable? If so, I think you may be require to do something official and documented like a SCAR.
 

Ed Panek

VP QA RA Small Med Dev Company FDA and ISO13485:16
Trusted
#18
Step #1) perform a min risk analysis for writing this supplier a SCAR.

We issued a SCAR for a product that was a sole supplier. They dropped us and well that product went away. Treat suppliers like partners.

Is this costing you real money? If so propose a bill back program instead of a SCAR. Maybe have them pay whatever the cost is that you deal with when they screw up.
 

Tagin

Starting to get Involved
#19
I find it bizarre that a supplier either get's pissed off or drops you as a customer if you SCAR them. Those are not suppliers I would want to partner with, or rely on, simply from a risk perspective. I know sole supplier situations can be tricky, but jeez...
 

Ninja

Looking for Reality
Trusted
#20
I find it bizarre that a supplier either get's pissed off or drops you as a customer if you SCAR them.
Just for the SCAR...likely not. But there's never only one part of an equation.

I think that sometimes folks writing (or considering writing) a SCAR forget that the supplier does their own math.
"The customer is always right" may work in retail, but not in commercial...especially when the customer makes up an insignificant amount of the bottom line. If the vendor makes less money on your business than the labor it would take handling the SCAR...the math gets really easy. Filing your SCAR under "unfounded" and no quoting you moving forward is a viable way of handling the situation.

I have customers I bend over backwards for to make them happy...and I have customers I wouldn't miss ... and I have non-customers that I simply don't want to deal with and thus do not do business with even when they ask to do business with me.

Every customer is in one of those buckets (or the "nice to have around, but wouldn't hurt us" bucket). Folks correctly bucket suppliers...but how often do we realize that we, as customers, are bucketed too...

Before writing a SCAR, especially to a sole supplier, consider carefully what bucket you are in as a customer...perhaps even ask them, though you should already know when it comes to sole suppliers.
As Ed said above...
We issued a SCAR for a product that was a sole supplier. They dropped us and well that product went away.
Consider the risk...there is no cookie cutter answer.
 

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